Throughout The Old Testament God refers to himself....and is referred to, as one. John 1:1 reveals that Our Saviour was with God in the beginning. As what? His word! His spokesman!
[Proverbs 30:4] Solomon knew that God had a Son...."Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and the name of his son? Tell me if you know!"
[Colossians 1:15-16] He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. [John 6:62] What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! and [John 3:13] No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven, the Son of Man.
To dispute the fact that Our Saviour was not God incarnate is to call scripture false. Even John The Baptist testifies that our Saviour (who was 6 months younger) was God incarnate [John 1:15] John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me."
So.....if God and his Son both pre existed the world, how come they are not two separate persons? [John 10:30] "I and the Father are one." [Philipians 2:5-7] For, let this mind be in you that [is] also in Christ Jesus who, being in the form of God, thought [it] not robbery to be equal to God, but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made.
As previously stated in earlier posts "Elohim" is, when used in the Hebrew to describe the one true god....a singular noun. It can be used to describe other gods in the plural but generally is used in the singular. Baalberith/Judges 8:33; Chemosh/Judges 11:24; Dagon/Judges 16:23; Ashteroth/I Kings 11:5; Balzebub/II Kings 1:2-3; Nisroch/II Kings 19:37 and the golden calf/Exodus 32:1-31 are all called Elohim in the singular! If anyone were to insinuate that these gods were trinities...or more than one it could easily be disproved. So, why does mainstream Christianity insist that the one true God of scriptures, Elohim, be referred to in the plural?
Jacob wrestled with Elohim [Genesis 32:24-24]....one opponent, not three! Moses is called Elohim [Exodus 7:1]. Was Moses a trinity? Elohim is called Father in the singular [Malachi 2:10].
Only two scriptures come close to supporting a trinitarian view, [1 John 5:7] which everyone by now should know is spurious and [Matthew 28:19].
Does Matthew prove a trinity? No! This is the translation from the Hebrew text, "Shem Tov". Yashua drew near and said, "All power[All Mighty] is given to me in Heaven and Earth. Go you and teach them to carry out all things I have commanded you forever." This translation agrees with that of Eusebius Histories, Book III, Chapter 5, Paragraph 2 Eusebius also tells us in Book III, Chapter 39, Paragraph 16 that according to Papias the Book of Matthew was written in the Hebrew, not the Greek. This is also confirmed by Iraeneus in his "Against Heresies" Book III, Chapter 1, Paragraph 1. And as Iraeneus explains in Paragraph 2, there is one God and one son of God.....the Holy Spirit being the Spirit of God.
Not surprisingly, the original Hebrew of Matthew, according to "Shem Tov" does not indicate a Trinitarian viewpoint....as also would the Torah.... used by the early Jewish believers and taught by the Apostles.
Unfortunately, the Greek manuscripts that we have... that have been used to translate Matthew....are not originals. This is another quote from Eusebius regarding the E.C.F., Origen: "Among the four Gospels, which are the only indisputable ones in the Church of God under heaven, I have learned that by tradition that the first was written by Matthew, who was a publican, but afterwards an Apostle of Jesus Christ, and it was prepared for the converts from Judaism, and published in the Hebrew language."
So, the only two scriptural references to the Trinity doctrine are in doubt! One proves to be spurious and the other, a translation from a different language....and not at all in agreement with the Torah.....of which Our Saviour reminded us: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them!"
To support the idea of a Trinitarian God head you have to use terms not found in the Bible, rely on false scripture based upon twisted interpretations that contradict extremely clear scriptures and create a convoluted theory that no one really understands, forcing it's adherents to declare it a mystery.
So are you saying that Jesus and the Father are the same person or are you espousing the binitarian view?
one what??? Where does it say there the they are "one person". Note that it does not read "I and the Father AM one". If he was the Father, why didn't he say so with the simple words: "I am the Father" --- but he didn't because he wasn't and isn't.
This same thing is stated by Paul in I Corinthians 3:6-8:
"I have planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase... Now he that planted and he that watereth are one".
Is Paul saying that he and Apollos are the same person? Certainly not. It means that they are united in agreement but with different ministries. They complement one another rather than conflict or compete with each other.
And then Jesus prays for his apostles "that they may be one even as we are one". Well, hello. Did John become Peter who became James .... Weren't they all different people with different identities and different ministries and different callings and different destinies??? But they became ONE just as the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit were ONE --- united in agreement and purpose regarding the Gospel but with separate identities, separate names, separate ministries.