Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Uncle Chip; Diego1618
So then all of those great Hebrew scholars before 1611, on the KJV translating committee, and since then have all been wrong?

I gave you the resources to look at it and you haven't followed those links yet to see it for yourself, have you?

There are places in the Bible where it is clear that the translators just added words that are not supported by the ancient texts.

So you go look the stuff up and then tell me.

If you have the guts to actually look it up, but I'm not holding my breath!

Jhn 19:18 Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.

The word "one" is not in the ancient text. You can see it yourself in an interlinear or in a concordance.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=19&verse=18&version=KJV#18

It should better read, Where they crucified him, and two other with him on this side and that side and Jesus in the midst.

Go ahead and see for yourself. Is this a case of translating or a case of making sure that the end product reflects the popular thought of the day?

204 posted on 02/09/2007 8:33:11 AM PST by Eagle Eye (There oughta be a law against excess legislation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 202 | View Replies ]


To: Eagle Eye

That's fine. So how should Genesis 1:26 read. Post your opinion of how it should read, if you have the guts.


207 posted on 02/09/2007 9:18:51 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 204 | View Replies ]

To: Eagle Eye; Uncle Chip; kerryusama04; spunkets
There are places in the Bible where it is clear that the translators just added words that are not supported by the ancient texts.

One of the problems is the Hebrew word "Elohim". As used in Genesis 1:26, it should read in the singular...but is translated, reads and governs the plural verb "make" as a plural itself. This is incorrect. Elohim can be translated in the plural....as when speaking of "pagan" gods etc., but when speaking of the one, true God....it should be rendered in the singular. So....is it a uni-plural noun....or isn't it? The answer is yes....and no!

Genesis 1:29 renders "Elohim" correctly....in the singular. Same word as used for God in Genesis 1:26 governs the singular phrase "I give you every seed bearing plant..." In verse 26 the phrase of course is in the plural. The noun "Elohim" governs both verses.....so, which is it?

Throughout the Old Testament the Hebrew noun "Elohim" behaves as a singular noun and governs singular verbs, adjectives and pronouns. Verse 27 is also in the singular, not saying "they" or "their"....but "He"....in "His" image.

So, why does it say "Us" in the translation? We know that the translators were Trinitarians....that's a given. They had preconceived notions. The verbal mood for expressing a command to the "first person singular....or plural" is referred to as a Cohortative mood. This is related to the imperative mood which is a more common mood for expressing commands from the first person....to the second person singular. The Cohortative mood is found in Genesis 1:26. The singular person, God, addresses Himself jointly with those present at the time. Therefore in Genesis 1:26 God, and those present with Him, jointly make up the plurality expressed by the pronoun "Us".

The plurality of "Us" extends back to God and the Cohortative mood causes God, as the speaker who issued the command, to be singular.

The first person may be singular,(I, you, he). It can also be plural,(we, you, they). The first person can only speak to the second person. Speaking to the third person is ungrammatical. You can speak about them...but not to them. The first person can speak to the first person singular as when speaking to them self. But when the first person speaks to the first person plural, he addresses himself and the ones with him.

The three verbal moods for expressing commands or intentions are "Imperative, Cohortative and Jussive". All three moods are used by the first person and he may address them to the first person by using the Cohortative mood, or to the second person by using the Imperative mood and to the third person by using the Jussive mood.

The imperative mood is usually used by a superior to a subordinate...like "Sit down!" In the Jussive mood the command for a third person to a second person would be, "Make him sit down!" It is impossible for a first person to speak directly to a third person because the third person is the one being spoken about to the second person.

In the Cohortative mood the first person commands the first person, singular or plural. When the first person commands himself (first person singular)...it is as "I will sit down". But when the first person commands the first person plural, the command would be "let us sit down". The first person (subject) is still singular. The plurality of the ones commanded does not extend back to the subject.

Immediately before the words "Let us make man in our image" we read "And (he) Elohim said" וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים. The word וַיֹּאמֶר "and he said" is the third person singular form of the verb אמר (qal inverted future). This indicates that the speaker is a singular individual. Were Elohim a plurality the verse would have opened "And (they) Elohim said" וַיֹּאמְרוּ אֱלֹהִים. The phrase "Elohim said/ spoke" appears about fifty times throughout the Hebrew Scriptures and in every single instance it is "(he) God said/ spoke" in the singular and never "(they) God said/ spoke" in the plural.

But, then I could be wrong!

222 posted on 02/09/2007 4:39:58 PM PST by Diego1618
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 204 | View Replies ]

To: Eagle Eye; Uncle Chip
And what does your post have to do with the Trinity?

There was one criminal at either side of Christ so the translation is correct and is in every major translation that I have checked, modern and pre-1611.

That there may have been more than two criminals is possible, but there were at least two, one on each side of Christ.

286 posted on 02/12/2007 3:46:10 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (For what saith the scripture? (Rom.4:3))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 204 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson