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To: spunkets; Diego1618

That's too easy! LOL...

The religious leaders of Jesus time had perverted the religion that God gave them with all kinds of man made traditions and twisted interpretations.

(Nothing has changed, the same is true today)

They claimed to Jesus that they were of their father Abraham and following his rules and laws.

Jesus pointed out that if they really were of Abraham they would celebrate him instead of revile him. Jesus then pointed out that they were in reality of the devil instead of God.

He tells then that the laws of Abraham were the ways, but that now, in this day and age, he, Jesus is the new way.

(Don't forget that the Greek texts had no capital letters and no puntuation, so all that is man made and prone to error. Actually I'm sure I'm infomorming you of this for the first time! lol...)

Anyway, Jesus tells them that before (in time past) Abriaham was (but today) I am.

Again, Abraham was the way to redemtion, but now I am.

If you think that Jesus was simply trying to one-up them on seniority by declaring that he was here before Abraham, not only does that not make any sense, it doesn't fit with the context of the discussion.

If you are trying to say that because Jesus uttered the words "I am" that makes him God because Jehova said "I am that I am"

Exd 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

There is no "to be" verb in Hebrew. (That also comes to play in Genesis 1:1,2) In Exodus, God was telling Moses that he (God) would become what he would become, that he could be whatever Moses needed him to be. This falls right in line with the 'Redemptive' namde of God ie, Jehova Repha, Jehova Shabat, Jehova Tsidkenu, etc. It is the same God with different names that describe his relationship to his people.

The baalim was a counterfeit of this and had a puriality of aspects to it but was not ever considered a single entity. This is one of the reasons that the scripture emphsizes that God is ONE GOD and that GOD is ONE, not two, not three.

There ya go.


Now to you...

Jhn 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am [he], and [that] I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

Ok, here Jesus says that he is the son of man. It says in the book of Numbers that God is not the son of man.

If God is not the son of man and Jesus is the son of man, then Jesus is not God.

Jhn 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Jesus tells them that he comes FROM God, not that he is God. Jesus clearly differentiates himself from God. Sorry, you won't find "God the Son" anywhere in the Bible. Using that term is unBiblical. God sent Jesus, not Jesus sent himself or God sent himself.

Jhn 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

Again, clearly differentiating Jesus from God. Jesus knew that he was the son of God; God knew that Jesus was his son, I believe that Jesus is the son of God, why do you believe that he is God?

Jhn 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.

There ya go.


203 posted on 02/09/2007 8:20:21 AM PST by Eagle Eye (There oughta be a law against excess legislation.)
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To: Eagle Eye
Again, Abraham was the way to redemtion, but now I am.

Abraham never ceased to be the path, or rather, the example of the path to salvation.

Gal 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

Abraham was saved by faith, so are we. This is the entire theme of the Bible.

205 posted on 02/09/2007 8:56:33 AM PST by kerryusama04 (Isa 8:20, Eze 22:26)
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To: Eagle Eye
"Anyway, Jesus tells them that before (in time past) Abriaham was (but today) I am. "

No. I believe what's written, not what you wrote.

216 posted on 02/09/2007 12:19:11 PM PST by spunkets
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To: Eagle Eye; Is2C; Thinkin' Gal
my apologies if this has already been covered:

1 John 3:1-3
3:1 See how great a love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.
2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we shall be. We know that, when He appears, we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him just as He is.
3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
NASB

1 John 3:1-3
3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
KJV

---------------------------------------

1 Cor 15:20-28
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

Heb 2:7-18
7 Thou (God) madest him (Jesus) a little lower than the angels; thou (God) crownedst him (Jesus) with glory and honour, and didst set him (Jesus) over the works of thy (God's) hands:
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
KJV

234 posted on 02/10/2007 8:01:11 AM PST by the-ironically-named-proverbs2
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To: Eagle Eye; Uncle Chip
The baalim was a counterfeit of this and had a puriality of aspects to it but was not ever considered a single entity. This is one of the reasons that the scripture emphsizes that God is ONE GOD and that GOD is ONE, not two, not three.

In Deut.6:4, the Hebrew word for 'one' is echad-a compound unity, not a singular one.

there ya go.

275 posted on 02/12/2007 3:44:08 AM PST by fortheDeclaration (For what saith the scripture? (Rom.4:3))
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