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To: Dr. Eckleburg; GCC Catholic; HarleyD; blue-duncan; AlbionGirl; P-Marlowe; xzins; Gamecock; ...
Again, Rome contradicts itself at the expense of the truth.

Baloney.

1) ""Yes, indulgences can be obtained. That said, a vast majority are gained through prayers or simple acts of penance which cost absolutely nothing." (And that said, there must be a "minority" of indulgences out there that CAN BE and ARE obtained through filthy lucre.)" ...
To GCCC's list must be added various works of mercy. You can 'ass-u-me' anything you like ... but your assumptions tell nothing about Catholic Doctrine.

2) "Some indulgences tied to a particular location (a particular shrine or the like), and getting to them often requires some money" Thus readers are to understand that it is still possible for indulgences to be sold and that this practice continues to this day."
Last time I checked, United Airlines was not part of the Catholic Church.

Finally, your article linked DID NOT support your false notion that indulgences are for sale. In fact, it cannot ... nor can anything else.

If one can't state one's "opponent's" position clearly, completely, and correctly, in terms with which he would agree, and which he would find inoffensive, one has absolutely no business commenting on the matter.

96 posted on 01/29/2007 12:31:48 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Actully if one assumes purgatory exists I'd argue there's a fair amount of support for the notion that a priest could grant a shorter stay there, and porbably in some instances for cash.


103 posted on 01/29/2007 12:40:39 PM PST by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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To: ArrogantBustard; GCC Catholic; P-Marlowe; xzins; Gamecock; AlbionGirl; HarleyD; wmfights; ...
The clear truth is that GCC Catholic said not once, but twice that indulgences are currently for sale and can be purchased today through the Roman Catholic church.

Call your local parish and offer to buy one. See what they say.

If you disapprove of what your church is doing, then work to change it. Denying the truth only confuses your opposition as well as your adherents.

WHAT IS THE CATHOLIC PRACTICE OF PLENARY INDULGENCES?

"... When a Catholic begins doubting their salvation or feeling guilty about their sinning they simply meet with a priest in private confession, contribute the dollar amount he assesses based upon the type, level, and/or degree of the sin(s), and then the priest prays to God on the person’s behalf which always results in meritorious forgiveness and a full pardon. Throughout life a Catholic can continue to request these sessions as many times as they deem necessary making sure they have more than enough merits to be saved for eternal life.

The Roman Catholic Church also teaches that this sacrament is made possible because God has treasures stored up in heaven called merits, “Treasury of Merits”. Merits consist of the grace accumulated by Christ’s sacrifice and the meritorious deeds of the old saints in heaven. They claim God charges every person a certain amount of “merits” they will need to earn during their lifetime to either be exempt from purgatory after they die or to work their way out of purgatory . Merits are earned by Catholic’s either working for the Lord in service, through purchase, or by a combination of both. But the objective is to have more merits than demerits before death so eternal life in heaven is possible.

Roman Catholic Church professes that Catholic’s can also buy merits for the dead who undoubtedly ended up in Hades/purgatory for lack of enough merits. This, they are told, can help to save the dead ultimately from eternal hell.

Roman Catholic Church doctrine teaches that a Catholic’s effort and performance in service to God through the church will give them the opportunity to be free of sin when they die, thus earning the privilege and right to be justified and sanctified for eternal life in heaven. Only the priest seems to know how much eternal security will cost a person financially.

Protestants are troubled that the Roman Catholic Church is promoting an unbiblical message to Catholic’s by stating that a person can save themselves or the dead by buying their way into heaven or out of Hades thus overlooking sin and repentance. And that through “works based salvation” they can earn the justification needed to be sanctified and saved by Christ. Protestants are also troubled that the Roman Catholic Church stands between God and a parishioner not allowing them to have a personal relationship with Christ.

The majority of Protestants firmly believe and desire that Catholic’s will come to understand and believe that it is , “ …by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not the result of works, so that no one may boast (Ephesians 2.8-9). Christ earned all the merits needed for His children to be justified and to be given the gift of sanctification and an eternal life of peace and joy with Him, all for His glory.


104 posted on 01/29/2007 12:41:37 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: ArrogantBustard
Yes, indulgences can be obtained.

You could have stopped right there. The RCC idea of "penance" now called "reconciliation", IS a "free" indulgence... except that it requires one's sweat equity to get it. It ain't free if you have to do something for it. Value-for-value is payment.

Last time I checked, the bible was chock full of references of how salvation through Jesus Christ is available to anyone through faith.

Last time I checked, United Airlines was not part of the Catholic Church.

Now you're onto something! I'd like to direct my frequent flyer miles toward my time in Purgatory. Should I go for an upgrade, or should I suffer through until I can afford a higher class of service?

138 posted on 01/29/2007 1:05:19 PM PST by pjr12345
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