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To: AlbionGirl

I hope you got a receipt for that!

BTW, are indulgences tax deductible?


180 posted on 01/29/2007 1:37:55 PM PST by pjr12345
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To: pjr12345
I never went back to arrange for the masses to be prayed. I was a fairly new member of this parish which was run by a very orthodox priest, who had come into some difficulty with the local bishop, who is without a doubt a very liberal man, though really not a bad guy. Effete, but not a bad guy. The orthodox priest was not above upbraiding a superior, if he thought he was compromising the faith, and from what I could gather from the priest's sermons he came close to being 'thrown out' of the priesthood. Those were his words.

The orthodox priest I reference had the title Knight of the Holy Sepulchre attached to his name, which is kind of a big deal for a priest, I think. I think he was a gutsy priest and probably a holy man, but a lousy confessor, and a very cold man, and in the end, not a very good priest, if you expect a priest to be able to shepherd the lost. He admitted himself that there were many men who had left the seminary during his time there who would have made better priests, so apparently he was aware of some of his shortcomings.

I would like to return to confession just one last time so I could hurl myself through the screen and give him the thrashing I think he deserves.

Anyway, back to the money for masses thing. It isn't that having to 'offer a stipend' came as any surprise to me. Nor that the expected amount was $10: 'it's the economy, stupid' knows no ethics or barrier.

This stipend for Mass has been a practice in the church for years. I think the practice developed from a practice of providing for priests that were sent your way who would be adminstering the sacraments in areas where priests were scarce or non-existent, and it was a way to provide for their basic needs. So far, so good.

Fast forward to the ensuing centuries: I live in Rochester, NY and it's tough to be a 'traditional' believer here no matter what communion you find yourself in. The Presbyterian church across the street from where I work houses (in its basement) a small, schismatic Catholic church, (Spiritus Christi) in which, I am told, a woman hangs on the Cross. To be honest with you I'm not quite certain whether the woman on the Cross is part of the Presbyterian church or this excommunicated Catholic branch. One person told me it hung in the ex-Catholic church and another person told me it hung in the Presbyterian church. I'm more inclined to suspect the ex-Catholic church as owner because a priest advised me that that's where it hung. Either way, I really would like to walk in there and see for myself, but I'm afraid the fate of Lot's wife will befall me, so resisting the temptation has been pretty easy.

Here's the vulgarity involved with attaching any kind of stipend to the Mass: the Mass is supposed to be a re-presentation of the once-for-all Sacrifice of Christ at Calvary. How is it possible then that a 10-spot or a 5-spot makes itself felt here? It's possible because it has been part of the revenue stream for years, and they would certainly feel having to give that up. To be fair, the orthodox priest referenced above dedicated 2 to 3 masses per week to the 'members of this parish', and I think he prayed about 8 masses per week. This really isn't about greed, it's about business. And, in an area such as this which is predominatly liberal and has suffered many parish closings, it becomes imperative that any parish, particularly the conservative ones be able to show that they are not a financial burden.

To give you an example of the financial situation and ethics here, and according to a co-worker who had to find another school for her youngster to attend because of this closing, a Catholic school (grades K-6, I think) was closed and farmed out to a Charter school. That's business and all business, my friend and not at all about the propagation of the faith.

We would get all manner of contribution envelopes, some of which would be labled for drives you had no idea where this money was off to. I think one envelope I had was marked for the "campaign for human development" or some such similar project.

Money is essential for the Church, there isn't anything wrong with being a good administrator in that regard, and if necessary having a priest declare from the pulpit, 'you guys are so cheap that I have to stand here and beg for money for church repairs, for the economic stability of this parish, and let me tell you this people, if you don't pony up, the bishop is going to take an undue interest in us, do you digg?'

I thought all of this long before I had my encounter with the deacon who was just relaying what was common practice. I used to dismiss it as, 'oh well they do need flowers and everything', but that's garbage. The priest is praying the Mass anyway, it's not like he arranges for a special Mass to be prayed on the day you request it. He's there, that's his job, that's what he became ordained for. But, if they believe that the Mass truly is the re-presentation of Christ's Sacrifice, then to place money between the Mass and the person requesting that the Mass be prayed for their loved ones is obscene. And the argument advanced that if you can't afford the stipend one would be said anyway is worthless. Must you plead poverty before the deacon or priest or office manager for the stipend to become non-essential? Is that how it works?

The reason I never went back to arrange for the masses to be prayed is because the awkwardness of the exchange left me cold and brought home that which I had known all along.

502 posted on 01/30/2007 10:15:01 AM PST by AlbionGirl (What is the sound of ecumenism happening?)
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To: pjr12345

http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/how2purg.htm


503 posted on 01/30/2007 10:16:54 AM PST by bornacatholic
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