Ah Mary, the first Girl Scout!
Posted on 01/29/2007 6:45:51 AM PST by stfassisi
Mazel tov
The orthodox priest I reference had the title Knight of the Holy Sepulchre attached to his name, which is kind of a big deal for a priest, I think. I think he was a gutsy priest and probably a holy man, but a lousy confessor, and a very cold man, and in the end, not a very good priest, if you expect a priest to be able to shepherd the lost. He admitted himself that there were many men who had left the seminary during his time there who would have made better priests, so apparently he was aware of some of his shortcomings.
I would like to return to confession just one last time so I could hurl myself through the screen and give him the thrashing I think he deserves.
Anyway, back to the money for masses thing. It isn't that having to 'offer a stipend' came as any surprise to me. Nor that the expected amount was $10: 'it's the economy, stupid' knows no ethics or barrier.
This stipend for Mass has been a practice in the church for years. I think the practice developed from a practice of providing for priests that were sent your way who would be adminstering the sacraments in areas where priests were scarce or non-existent, and it was a way to provide for their basic needs. So far, so good.
Fast forward to the ensuing centuries: I live in Rochester, NY and it's tough to be a 'traditional' believer here no matter what communion you find yourself in. The Presbyterian church across the street from where I work houses (in its basement) a small, schismatic Catholic church, (Spiritus Christi) in which, I am told, a woman hangs on the Cross. To be honest with you I'm not quite certain whether the woman on the Cross is part of the Presbyterian church or this excommunicated Catholic branch. One person told me it hung in the ex-Catholic church and another person told me it hung in the Presbyterian church. I'm more inclined to suspect the ex-Catholic church as owner because a priest advised me that that's where it hung. Either way, I really would like to walk in there and see for myself, but I'm afraid the fate of Lot's wife will befall me, so resisting the temptation has been pretty easy.
Here's the vulgarity involved with attaching any kind of stipend to the Mass: the Mass is supposed to be a re-presentation of the once-for-all Sacrifice of Christ at Calvary. How is it possible then that a 10-spot or a 5-spot makes itself felt here? It's possible because it has been part of the revenue stream for years, and they would certainly feel having to give that up. To be fair, the orthodox priest referenced above dedicated 2 to 3 masses per week to the 'members of this parish', and I think he prayed about 8 masses per week. This really isn't about greed, it's about business. And, in an area such as this which is predominatly liberal and has suffered many parish closings, it becomes imperative that any parish, particularly the conservative ones be able to show that they are not a financial burden.
To give you an example of the financial situation and ethics here, and according to a co-worker who had to find another school for her youngster to attend because of this closing, a Catholic school (grades K-6, I think) was closed and farmed out to a Charter school. That's business and all business, my friend and not at all about the propagation of the faith.
We would get all manner of contribution envelopes, some of which would be labled for drives you had no idea where this money was off to. I think one envelope I had was marked for the "campaign for human development" or some such similar project.
Money is essential for the Church, there isn't anything wrong with being a good administrator in that regard, and if necessary having a priest declare from the pulpit, 'you guys are so cheap that I have to stand here and beg for money for church repairs, for the economic stability of this parish, and let me tell you this people, if you don't pony up, the bishop is going to take an undue interest in us, do you digg?'
I thought all of this long before I had my encounter with the deacon who was just relaying what was common practice. I used to dismiss it as, 'oh well they do need flowers and everything', but that's garbage. The priest is praying the Mass anyway, it's not like he arranges for a special Mass to be prayed on the day you request it. He's there, that's his job, that's what he became ordained for. But, if they believe that the Mass truly is the re-presentation of Christ's Sacrifice, then to place money between the Mass and the person requesting that the Mass be prayed for their loved ones is obscene. And the argument advanced that if you can't afford the stipend one would be said anyway is worthless. Must you plead poverty before the deacon or priest or office manager for the stipend to become non-essential? Is that how it works?
The reason I never went back to arrange for the masses to be prayed is because the awkwardness of the exchange left me cold and brought home that which I had known all along.
Ah Mary, the first Girl Scout!
In the Gospel of Luke, Mary says, "all generations shall call me blessed." As far as I can tell, YOU DON'T.
Now, setting aside the callous disrespect you show for the Blessed Virgin Mary, you want to equate her with with Benny Hinn. You miss the obvious point that any healing that is done at Hinn's services is not done by him and the Church has never claimed that anyone but God has ever healed anyone at Lourdes. Are you aware that what occurred at Lourdes was thoroughly examined by non-Catholic sceptics who didn't believe anything that St. Bernadette was saying? Are you aware that when Bernadette told the bishop that the Blessed Mother told her, "I am the Immaculate Conception" she was telling Bernadette a term that it has been confirmed that Bernadette had never heard? Can you explain why St. Bernadette's body to this day is incorrupt to this day? Of course, it is also worth noting that Bernadette rejected money and her family continued to live in poverty, while men such as Benny Hinn are raising money to purchase private jets.
Now, let's talk about "shrines", you or I can drive through any city in this country and see Protestant churches named for Sts. Mark, Luke, John, Andrew, Timothy, Paul, etc. Are these "shrines"? It seems to me that it is not simply the Church you are rejecting, you are also rejecting traditional Protestantism as practiced by Lutherans, Calvinists, Anglicans, Methodists and even Baptists.
That's why I stick to no more than 1/2 to 1 glass of red wine every other day or so. Believe it or not, it was recommended by my doctor to lower my blood pressure. He also recommended a twenty minute walk each day.
I took the first half of his advice "religiously", and the latter half a bit less heartedly. However, it worked quite well.
This thread is very educational ... one can learn a lot about people just by watching how they interact with their friends. I, for one, find it very enlightening.
"Or,maybe, do you think that even you need to undergo purgation,"
Bornacatholic, (can I address you as bc?) I look at purgation from the standpoint of Gen 2:18, "And the LORD God said, [It is] not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him." That's what marriage is for. Everything else is commentary.
for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. (Luke 1:48)
It doesn't say "can" or even "should" call her blessed, it says SHALL. She obviously predicted that it would be members of the Church that would call her blessed and logic would dictated that those who don't call her blessed are not members of the One True Church.
Protestants can argue all they want; however, scripture clearly instructs them to do something and not only do they fail to do so, they MOCK THOSE WHO DO.
Well, you've got your hankies, PM has his peepstone; Corin has his ring of power, gamey has his ribbons....
That leaves DrE and me being the only ones depending solely on the Lord without any bricbrac or icons to aid us on our way.
Not so fast xzins, don't you still have the Chart???
"The Chart"
You bring up "The Chart?!"
(I'm not sure. I know it's not on this computer; but it could still be on the one at the office.)
You think I should post it again if I find it? Auld lang syne?
LOL. I was a Girl Scout and she never showed up at any of our meetings. (Probably why I never learned to sew.)
Nay brother, post not the chart.
"That leaves DrE and me being the only ones depending solely on the Lord without any bricbrac or icons to aid us on our way."
Not to worry, I'll send her the A,A. Allen flask, being a Presbyterian attempting to get back to the red wine, she can use it more than me (a real grape juice Baptist). Anyway I just got in the plain wrapper mail a Swaggert's Favorite Angel Calendar.
ROTFLOL!!!
I'm doubled-over with laughter at the very thought of that sight.
You go, girl!
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