Posted on 01/29/2007 6:45:51 AM PST by stfassisi
No, I put the bible first that's all. Why eat baloney when steak is on the table?
"Last time I checked, the bible was chock full of references of how salvation through Jesus Christ is available to anyone through faith."
Yes, but if you read the Gospels Jesus says there are TWO commandments:
(1) "Love God with all your heart, and all your soul, and all your mind, and all your strength," and
(2) "Love your neighbor as yourself".
Jesus says that's what the Law and the Prophets mean. He also says that nothing you eat makes you impure (so, toss out all those complicated food laws in Leviticus and Deuteronomy: they were wrong).
And he places a great deal of emphasis on what one DOES. DO this. DON'T do that.
Does what one DOES matter?
According to Jesus, yes.
So, although there may be plenty of references out there of how salvation through Jesus Christ is available to anyone through faith, when we go to The Man, Jesus Christ, and listen to him tell us what "faith" means, we find out that there's a lot of believing and loving, and that believing and loving mean DOING, just as he did, and admonished everyone else to do.
Faith without works is dead. - James.
That was Luther, not King James. Luther was the one who decided to remove Books of Canon to justify his heretical and non-biblical theories.
"Intricacy?"
It's either right or it's wrong. The only hopeful sign in all this is that RC laymen are evidencing discomfort at the idea of buying one's way into heaven.
I'm very pleased that Luther and others triggered the Enlightenment. Beyond historical value, I am not terribly concerned with his doctrines or writings-- pre- or post- RCC.
I value the written Word of God above any man-made opinion, regardless of that opinion's stature or antiquity.
lol. Less and less after all this time on the forum. 8~)
Not sure about this post of yours. I surmise that you must have completed it and hit the "Post" button before reading my last one.
This is all I need to know about old Luther
"I constantly badgered St. Paul about that spot in Romans 1 and anxiously wanted to know what he meant. I meditated night and day on those words until at last, by the mercy of God, I paid attention to their context: "The justice of God is revealed in it, as it is written: 'The just person lives by faith.'"
Stop it with the food references! You're making me hungry.
BTW Sandy: If you've had a dry aged, USDA Prime Porterhouse cooked to perfection, you'll have no desire for any of those distracting side-dishes.
MMMM... The Gospel of Christ beats all!
I'm making buffalo with cabbage for supper, c'mon over!
"Scripture DOES support Purgatory quite well
Taken from Scripturecatholic.com"
The Scripture you cite does not support the concept of ourgatory as has been shown the many times you have posted this article. Purgatory is a late 12th, early 13th century man made construct looking for support in isolated texts and among snippets of early church writings, many from writers excommunicated like origen or dismissed like Tertullian. The concept was needed to give some hope to a soteriology that gave no assurance that any one was saved until after death when it was too late for the deceased to do anything about it. It provides a false hope of second chance or an opportunity to clean up the deceased's act even though they didn't want to clean it up or did not want to take the time to do it while they were alive.
The concept is a clear rejection of Jesus' explicit statement "TODAY, thou shalt be with me in Paradise". It is contrary to Paul's statement in Phil. 1:21-23, "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better" and his statement in 2 Cor. 5:8, "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."
Purgatory is contrary to Paul's statement in Rom. 7:23-8:3, " But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:"
There is no condemnation for the believer because Jesus has paid the penalty for sin for all who trust Him for their salvation. we children of God now because we have trusted Him for our salvation. There is no gap between this life and the next, earth or heaven for the believer and there is no second chance for the unbeliever.
Have you ever eaten wild boar? It tastes like pork, but it's much leaner.
Gehenna
ga-hen'-a (geenna (see Grimm-Thayer, under the word)): Gehenna is a transliteration from the Aramaic form of the Hebrew ge-hinnom, "valley of Hinnom." This latter form, however, is rare in the Old Testament, the prevailing name being "the valley of the son of Hinnom." Septuagint usually translates; where it transliterates the form is different from Gehenna and varies. In the New Testament the correct form is Gee'nna with the accent on the penult, not Ge'enna. There is no reason to assume that Hinnom is other than a plain patronymic, although it has been proposed to find in it the corruption of the name of an idol (EB, II, 2071).
In the New Testament (King James Version margin) Gehenna occurs in Mat_5:22, Mat_5:29-30; Mat_10:28; Mat_18:9; Mat_23:15, Mat_23:33; Mar_9:43, Mar_9:15, Mar_9:47; Luk_12:5; Jam_3:6. In all of these it designates the place of eternal punishment of the wicked, generally in connection with the final judgment. It is associated with fire as the source of torment. Both body and soul are cast into it. This is not to be explained on the principle that the New Testament speaks metaphorically of the state after death in terms of the body; it presupposes the resurrection.
In the King James Version and the Revised Version (British and American) Gehenna is rendered by "hell" (see ESCHATOLOGY OF THE NEW TESTAMENT). That "the valley of Hinnom" became the technical designation for the place of final punishment was due to two causes. In the first place the valley had been the seat of the idolatrous worship of Molech, to whom children were immolated by fire (2Ch_28:3; 2Ch_33:6). Secondly, on account of these practices the place was defiled by King Josiah (2Ki_23:10), and became in consequence associated in prophecy with the judgment to be visited upon the people (Jer_7:32). The fact, also, that the city's offal was collected there may have helped to render the name synonymous with extreme defilement. Topographically the identification of the valley of Hinnom is still uncertain. It has been in turn identified with the depression on the western and southern side of Jerusalem, with the middle valley, and with the valley to the E. Compare EB, II, 2071; DCG, I, 636; RE3, VI.
Geerhardus Vos
The Word is bread, meat, milk and honey and water and wine. What else you need?
No, but if I get a chance, I will
They are instructive in that they illustrate how far God can take a man from darkness into the light.
I'll try to remember that as I read things posted in caucus, where I am able to go only while wearing a gag.
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