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To: kerryusama04
"What do you do when the shepherds are themselves sexually devient and profaners of the Law of God?"

I've never, to my knowledge, had a pastor who was sexually deviant or a profaner of the Law of God. It would be a most painful situation.

If he were (say) a criminal abuser, you'd be better advised to go to the police before you went to the bishop.

If he were doing something not covered by secular criminal law, like teaching heresy, you'd have to do like the Lord says: (Matthew 18:15-17) "... go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."

14 posted on 01/28/2007 11:00:42 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Do not accept a "truth" that comes without love, or a "love" that comes without truth. Edith Stein)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
If he were (say) a criminal abuser, you'd be better advised to go to the police before you went to the bishop.

This is an incredible shame.

1Co 6:1 Does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous and not before the saints?
1Co 6:2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?
1Co 6:3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?
1Co 6:4 So if you have law courts dealing with matters of this life, do you appoint them as judges who are of no account in the church?
1Co 6:5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not among you one wise man who will be able to decide between his brethren,
1Co 6:6 but brother goes to law with brother, and that before unbelievers?
1Co 6:7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded?
1Co 6:8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Mat 18:15 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
Mat 18:16 "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.
Mat 18:17 "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

I couldn't agree more. When you have a problem, the last stop is the congregation. The problem with this verse over the years is that "the church" has come to mean "the bureaucats that you pay to tell you what to think", when it is suppose to mean "the congregation".

ekklēsia; from G1537 and G2564; an assembly, a (religious) congregation: - assembly (3), church (74), churches (35), congregation (2).

15 posted on 01/28/2007 11:50:58 AM PST by kerryusama04 (Isa 8:20, Eze 22:26)
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