[xzins]

Luther had the courage to speak against what was wrong. For his trouble he was kicked in the teeth.

As any credible historian knows, Luther was forced out when he should have been listened to.

Cardinal Albert of Hohenzollern, Archbishop of Mainz and Magdeburg, with the consent of Pope Leo X, was using part of the indulgence income to pay his bribery debts,[26] and did not reply to Luther’s letter; instead, he had the theses checked for heresy and forwarded to Rome.[27]

Leo responded over the next three years, “with great care as is proper”,[28] by deploying a series of papal theologians and envoys against Luther. Perhaps he hoped the matter would die down of its own accord, because in 1518 he dismissed Luther as "a drunken German" who "when sober will change his mind".[29]

Like those who preceded him, Leo was a crook, too.

There would have been no reforming of the RC's manners if Luther had not revolted. His revolution would not have been possible if the corruption was not evident and sickening to the princes and other aristocracy who sided with him.

It's highly likely that the presence of competition in the marketplace of Christian ideas continues to keep various Christian bodies, to include the RC, in line.

[Andrew Byler]

competition in the marketplace of Christian ideas continues to keep various Christian bodies, to include the RC, in line

What a crock. Typical of an American Christian, you take the exceptional position of America, one of the few places where adherents of many religions rub elbows, as typical of the whole world.

In all of the Christian world outside the immigrant lands of America, Canada, and Australia, there is no real "competition in the marketplace". Catholics live in one area, Protestants in another, Orthodox in a 3rd, and neither the three shall meet.

So if this competition does not exist in most of the world, how could it accomplish what you claim?

[wmfights]

There would have been no reforming of the RC's manners if Luther had not revolted. His revolution would not have been possible if the corruption was not evident and sickening to the princes and other aristocracy who sided with him.

I think that the Reformation was just the last in a long line of Christian sects that left Roman domination.

It's stunning how much good has come from this last great upheaval. The greatest good being the translation of Scripture into native tongues. Thus Scripture became available to all, not just an elite religious caste.

[Jaded]

Once Luther's followers started rioting, looting and murdering, Luther hid.

Then there is the boring everyday politics that surrounded and influenced the reformation.