Posted on 01/24/2007 8:42:52 PM PST by xzins
The Reformation's intent was mass distribution. This was now possible because of the printing press. I've been to Mainz Germany to see Gutenberg's press, and it is awesome that this invention, in the midst of this conflict, came about at just this time of supreme corruption and just this time of a courageous man willing to speak out and to translate the scripture into his native German.
God's ways are too wonderful for the mind of us finite humans.
see #37
You wouldn't get me to buy into it.
And apparently, when it got bad enough, the German princes and the revolutionary Evangelische (Lutherans) weren't buying into it either.
The Reformation didn't capture N. Europe by storm because it had no substance. It was because the corruption was so extreme that people could see clearly that "The Pope had no clothes." (Nor did the Emperor.)
Once Luther's followers started rioting, looting and murdering, Luther hid.
Then there is the boring everyday politics that surrounded and influenced the reformation.
Luther, who wrote "Against the Murderous, Thieving Hordes of Peasants (1525)," was no supporter of the peasant atrocities.
Wonderful. We could use that on a lot of these threads! LOL!
I wonder how many other leaders of other churches have such shady pasts???
What are those principles of faith. The key principle of faith that the Bible clearly teaches is that it is by "Grace we are saved through faith and not of works, lest any man should boast." Yet the Catholic Church has for hundreds of years made salvation contingent upon works.
So what principles of Faith in the RC Church have not been corrupted?
Great picture!
Luther attempted to drive the money changers from the temple, but the money changers triumphed and expelled Luther from the temple instead.
Please do not use potty language or references to potty language on the Religion Forum.
Exactly.
Of course, once "mass distribution" had been achieved, Luther started to regret what he'd created. He wanted everyone to read the Bible allright, but he also expected they'd agree with him afterwards. :-0
The difference, of course, is that their churches don't claim that their leaders have it within them to be infallible.
I don't really know the answer to the following question: Is it possible for a Pope to be removed at all? for malfeasance?
We don't make "salvation contingent upon works" any more than Christ or St. James do. For that matter, it was St. Paul who said, in the same Epistle you quote, "neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love."
If Jesus and James are "too contingent upon works" for you, I'm sorry. I'll continue to follow Jesus, and not Luther or Calvin.
The Eastern Orthodox absolutely claim that an ecumenical council, once "accepted" by the church, teaches infallibly.
You, yourself, believe that the Apostles taught (at least when they wrote Scripture) under inspiration. Inspiration is a higher charism than infallibility, so yes, you absolutely claim that the leaders of the church in the apostolic era were infallible under some circumstances, in fact that they were more than infallible.
There definitely were other groups and leaders that gave Luther pause.
I was responding to the observation that other churches have leaders who haven't been altogether moral.
When was the most recent ecumenical council?
When did the last Apostle die? (Hint: Robert Duval doesn't count.:>)
What difference does it make?
Infallibility is not an openness to divine guidance but the Holy Spirit preventing the comission of error in teaching. A Pope does not have to be in tune with the Holy Spirit for the Holy Spirit to do His work. Infallibility does not make the Pope wise, smart, judicious, well-meaning or any other good thing. It simply prevents him from binding the Church to erroneous teaching.
The Robert Duval defense, eh?
:>)
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