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To: Vicomte13; Cvengr
"There existed believers in the Old Testament period who were also only saved through faith in Him. They did not have the New Testament Gospels, however, the crimson thread of redemption runs throughout each of books of the major and minor prophets."

Romans 16:25-26

25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith—

Hebrew 11, culminating in verse 39

39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

Those of the OT who were saved, were saved by faith in God's promise of a plan for salvation. A plan He kept hidden until after it had been accomplished.

There are people who go to heaven without ever having read a lick of Scripture at all,

Romans 1:19-21

19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

EVERYONE is aware of God simply by the world around them. The bare minimum requirement for all men is to glorify Him and thank Him. From there, our responsibility increases based upon the level of enlightenment we receive.

It doesn't make sense to have four books about what God himself said and did in person and not use that as the core reference.

2 Timothy 3:16

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

John 14:26

26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

The operative word in both passages is ALL. It doesn't say, "the gospels are a better source of teaching than the epistles", nor does it say "the Holy Spirit will guide you in better truth through your historical writings than in your letters".

Ranking Scripture is unacceptable and ungodly. It is All inspired by the Holy Spirit, and equally authoritative!

589 posted on 01/27/2007 2:45:47 PM PST by pjr12345
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To: Vicomte13

Feel free to respond to my post 573.


590 posted on 01/27/2007 2:50:19 PM PST by pjr12345
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To: pjr12345

Concur, great references,..thanks.


593 posted on 01/27/2007 4:21:18 PM PST by Cvengr
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To: pjr12345

All of those citations you gave me are from letters of Paul (written before the Gospels were), or one from John.

The "Scripture" that they were referring to, and that Jesus was referring to, was the Old Testament. There was no New Testament to be Scripture when Paul wrote his letters. In fact, there were only a few of his own letters. Nowhere does Paul ever refer to his OWN WRITINGS as Scripture. He is not so arrogant. The ALL Paul is referring to is ALL of the Jewish Bible, the only Scriptures that existed at the time he wrote.

What the Scriptures were to First Century Jews is obvious enough: the Jewish Scriptures.

That we Christians have put together a book of Christian writings, called it the New Testament, and call it Scripture is good, but it's not what the writers IN the New Testament are referring to. THEY weren't referencing their own letters and calling them "Scripture". Jesus certainly wasn't referencing the letters of Paul.

Now, who was it, precisely, who identified what the New Testament canon would be, and thereby defined what the new Scriptures would be? Who had the authority to decide what WAS new Scripture, to be added to the old Scripture, and authoritative in itself?

Beyond that, it is very clear in the Old Testament itself, and from the content of what Jesus actually cited to when he specifically referred to "Scripture", that the hierarchy of authority within Judaism between the Torah (the HIGHEST authority in Scripture) and the Prophets (second highest authority) was followed by the apostles and Jesus himself. Jesus refers to "the Law and the Prophets", which is to say, the Jewish expression for the Torah and the Prophetic books. If JESUS was following the conventional Jewish hierarchy of Scriptural authority, how in the dickens can any of US say that it's "unacceptable and ungodly" to view different Scripture with different authority.

That's a made up rule, asserted with authority that you do not have.


609 posted on 01/28/2007 6:22:24 PM PST by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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