Replies

Whew, that was the long answer. Now for some quick comments.

So yes, the Church is "above" bible and other tradition, but only in the sense that it is the AUTHOR of both

First, Church in the NT comes from the word ekklesia which means a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly for worship. An assembly of citizens did not gather and pen the Bible. That would be a Bible by committee. The Bible was written by specific men guided by the Holy Spirit, not an assembly. I'll start in your favorite place a Gospel.

John 14:25-26 ¶ These things have I spoken unto you, being [yet] present with you.

But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Gospel of John says that specific people, inspired by the Holy Spirit of God, wrote the Bible, not an assembly.

2Tim 3:16-17 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

You may not give 2 Tim any credance but it also supports the Scriptures being given by inspiration of God (which would be the Holy Spirit). These verses would show that the Holy Spirit of God is the author and authority of the Scriptures, not an assembly of people.

And THEREFORE, Catholics believe that what JESUS specifically said and did is authoritative. EVERYTHING ELSE in the Bible - all the letters of Paul, Peter, John, all of the Old Testament - has to be interpreted through the words of Jesus.

Jesus was God. The Bible means what Jesus said and did. Any interpretation that departs from what Jesus said or did is obviously wrong. It's not even debatable as a matter of logic, let alone theology.

Intresting situation you have here. Of course, I know that everything that Jesus said and did was Holy, but you only know about it because the Holy Spirit guided certain people. As you said before to me, Jesus didn't specifically pen any books in the Bible, so why do you give more credance to the words written about Jesus life by inspired men, then words written about the inspired men and the Christians they sheperded by inspired men? The Holy Spirit Guided both, so where in Scripture do you get the basis that the Gospels are MORE important?

Second, I have seen Catholics (not of FR) debate about homosexuality not being a sin. They do this using your same logic..."Jesus never spoke against it." Now, the Church in Rome will never decree this (I hope), but many of your liberal Catholics believe it based on your type of reasoning.

This may seem "out there" right now, but it's a start.

Good, thank you ScubieNuc.

In order to respond to your post, I am having to take a bit of time carefully collecting every instance in the Gospels in which Jesus references Scripture, and what he says about it, and what he uses it for.

That will take me a little bit of time, but there is no point giving half-baked, swashbukling answers to serious questions. So, I will go "down periscope" for a bit with you, and when I resurface I will have a set of Scriptural answers to your Scriptural questions and assertions.

Thanks again.