Posted on 01/24/2007 5:24:55 AM PST by Quix
I'm not so sure about that...something for me to research. Probably most of them had access to at least the NT. Anyway, if it were true it'd be a technicality. Even if a priest didn't have a "Bible" the way we understand it today, he would have said daily Mass and the Divine Office from liturgical books that were loaded with all the most important passages. The reading cycle was sorta different then, but if you attend daily Mass nowadays, for 3 years straight I think it is, you hear the entire Bible cover to cover.
The true miracle of the power of God's Word. It is sufficient.
And when they did see the Bible, it was chained to the altar so no one could get near it other than the anointed few.
Lemme ask you this, Quix. The group of people translating the Scriptures into Seranon--isn't that adding a "layer" of tradition. Suppose they goof here or there--get a word wrong. Translate in a way that, say, makes it sound in Seranon like Jesus is a different God than the Father.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they are very conscientious in their goal. In my field I've come across American Indian Bibles (like Eliot's in Massachusett)--some of which were literary gems. But it's extremely difficult to get it right and impossible to get it perfect. We can't even have a perfect English Bible, and thousands of people have been working on that for 500 years.
Maybe you don't see this translation issue as problematic. But it *is* in some sense extra-Biblical, no? Isn't someone making choices/decisions for someone else's Scripture? And might that not color how those people read and understand the text?
Maybe we should teach the Seranon Greek. :)
As GCC Catholic pointed out, it was chained there because it was worth its weight in gold practically. A whole Bible cost as much as a house.
But let's break those chains anyway and hand that Bible to an average Joe like me in 1100 A.D. Lots of pretty pictures in it...but guess what, I can't read. And if I could read, I couldn't understand Latin. So I'm not sure what that accomplished, other than make me feel stupid. :)
Sorry! Forgot to ping you to #45.
Thanks.
Glad we got that straight, again.
Some people are genetically predisposed to learning best by listening--especially to stories--men, for one.
Amen! Amen!
I think I have an inadequate ability to speak more meaningfully and fruitfully regarding the effectiveness of the simplicity of Scripture.
Folks can invent all kinds of problems to be cheeky about. Not my choice.
Follow them over time. Do a study.
See how long they stay healthy. See what beliefs each "church" comes to espouse. Note the degree of divergence in the various "churches" and whether their beliefs are consistent or conflicting. See to what degree the Christian message becomes mixed and mingled with pagan beliefs or native culture. That should give you some window on the work of the Holy Spirit.
I think your shouts of "success" and your exuberant celebration of "Houston, we have a church" are a little premature. You're introducing people to the word of God. This isn't the end. It's just the beginning. These people are starting a journey (see St. Paul's letters for all the problems of newly-birthed Christian communities).
Do you intend to simply let them wander where ever the "spirit" takes them, or will there be some .....*cough*.....authoritative follow-up in order to guide them, should they start plucking out their eyes, for instance, so as not to sin? 'Course, I would hate to suggest that you might be imposing some of that Christian .......*Protestants cover eyes, dangerous word ahead*........tradition ..........*all clear*......on these new converts, but I take it there is some form of spiritual accountability and guidance.
"...The Expanded AudienceLiteracy increased markedly with the advance of the press. Most notably this occurred among the emerging middle class of the cities. This audience was essential to the success of the Reformation. The doctors, lawyers, and merchants of the cities opposed Catholic clergy and the power of the Catholic church which drew the gold from their cities into the coffers of Rome. This new middle class could well afford the Reformer's books and consequently became the core of the Reformation. From this class came leaders like Calvin and Knox.
Literacy was extended, to a lesser degree, to the lower classes. To persuade the partially-educated the Reformers issued a barrage of pamphlets. Even the illiterate could be significantly influenced by printed cartoons, caricatures, and broadsides. Eisenstein states, By pamphleteering directed at arousing popular support and aimed at readers who were unversed in Latin, the Reformers pioneered in mass communication techniques. They also left ineradicable impressions in the form of broadsides and caricatures. Designed to catch the attention and arouse the passion of sixteenth century readers, their anti-papist cartoons still have a strong impact when encountered in history books today.
Indeed, the printing revolution cut across the entire spectrum of society. No sector was beyond the scope of the press..."
Amen and a very interesting article. God's word will not come back void.
That said, one large assumption that you made is the one that became the title of this thread: that a group of people, given only the Scriptures (via audio) and that have formed churches that fit a model that those who believe in Sola Scriptura consider to be Biblical proves that Sola Scriptura is true.
What I'm asking you is how giving a group of people the Bible in a vacuum, with no interpreter or outside influence, *proves* that Sola Scriptura is true. The result is the one that would be expected, when all you have given them is Scripture. I'm attempting to say (although perhaps not well) that if these people had lived in the same historical context as the Apostles and the rest of the Early Church, their theology and ecclesiology would have been that OF the Early Church. You neglected to answer that challenge in your prior response; instead you chose to dismiss it.
I think marshmallow's point bears consideration as well... what happens when these individuals begin to stray off or disagree, when there is no authority to guide them?
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While I hope it is true, how do we know all these tribal villages now have functioning churches and didnt just tell your pastor whateve he wanted to hear?
All whom God has appointed to salvation will hear the Gospel, believe in Jesus Christ and be saved. Not one shall be lost.
But as Paul said, how are men to know the truth unless first by the preaching of the word?
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" -- Romans 10:13-15"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
FCBH folks went with nearby Christian tribal experts back to the areas concerned and had extensive observational meetings with said congregations.
They are not idiots.
The result is the one that would be expected,
= = =
YES INDEED!
WHEN FOLKS DO THE WORD,
GOD DOES HIS PART.
Very predictable; very expectable.
Excellent. If it is a choice between some apparatus which speaks the Gospel to these people, or no word at all, then clearly the former is preferable.
"But what saith it? ('it' being Scripture, Deuteronomy 30:14) the word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach" -- Romans 10:8
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