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To: Dr. Eckleburg; lastchance

>> And though I am Catholic and believe fully in Church teachings I would rather a poor Catholic become a good Protestant then remain where they are not able to see and love Christ with their whole beings. <<

Cause, you know... they'll come back.


183 posted on 01/12/2007 6:31:44 AM PST by dangus (Pope calls Islam violent; Millions of Moslems demonstrate)
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To: dangus; Salvation; My2Cents

I've enjoyed reading this thread. Thank you, Salvation, for the ping.

I especially enjoyed the discussion regarding the Sacraments. Dangus, you did a very good job with that part. I want to add something to this part, though. That is that the Sacraments are universal and didn't begin with Christ... they were rather given their fullest meaning in Him.

I'll explain...

First, the Seven Sacraments:
1. Baptism
2. Eucharist
3. Confirmation
4. Reconciliation
5. Matrimony
6. Holy Orders
7. Anointing of the Sick

In the opening of the Bible, we are before the days of Israel as God's chosen people, before the Law and pre-covenant. Yet, in this narration we find the Matrimony of the first couple, God's attempt at Reconciliation with Adam when confronting him in the Garden, the sacrifices of Cain and Abel to honor God, the Baptism and rebirth of the world through the waters of the flood, the priesthood of Melchizedek, the sacrificial offering of Isaac by Abraham, and the "coming of age" of Esau and Jacob with their father's blessing.

You can see these themes repeated with greater meaning througout covenantal history. The annointing of David makes him king and prophet of God. The Levites become a priestly people. Sacrifices are offered for the removal of sin.

What Jesus did and instituted in the New Covenant wasn't new. It was fulfilled, as He said. These things which we were obviously taught to do by God in the beginning were made new in the life of Christ. There is real power and depth in the Sacraments that reach to the firmament of creation.

When Jesus came to die on the cross for us, He didn't do something unknown. For hundreds of years, mankind had offered sacrifices to his gods. The Israelites were instructed by God how to offer rightly for the payment of sin. God instructed them to continue the Passover meal in remembrance of their salvation from bondage in Egypt. Jesus transformed the meaning of this meal into our Sacrament of the Eucharist in remembrance of His work of saving us from the condemnation of the Law.

God has given us a seamless whole throughout history and revealed His Glory in Christ. He didn't destroy His work in pardoning us of our sins by overturning what He had instituted from the beginning. He worked through His Own Laws and, in doing so, brought forth a renewed creation.

The Sacraments aren't something we do. They are something that God does for us. They aren't empty ritual or manipulating God into doing our will. They are our response to Him in doing His Will and they impart the Grace they signify.


199 posted on 01/12/2007 7:23:43 AM PST by pgyanke (Gay marriage does to real marriage what counterfeit money does to real money. - Hemogoblin)
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To: dangus

More because I believe fully in the power of Christ's grace to transform lives. With the call of radical Islam to destroy Christianity and the secular West's contempt for any believer who holds the fundementals of faith, I just can not see fellow Christians as the enemy.

I will not deny the theological differences but prefer to focus on the fact we all call Jesus Lord and Savior and look to Him for forgiveness of sins and life everlasting.


265 posted on 01/12/2007 1:45:05 PM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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