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To: Uncle Chip
Good morning, Uncle, and thank you for dropping by this thread. The early Christian liturgy follows the teachings of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. How close does your worship service approach it?

In your search through Justin Martyr's writings, did you find any statement of his that indicates that the apostle Peter was ever in Rome?

Your question has no bearing on this topic. But since you raised it, other church Fathers have written about Peter in Rome.

DIONYSIUS

"You [Pope Soter] have also, by your very admonition, brought together the planting that was made by Peter and Paul at Rome and at Corinth; for both of them alike planted in our Corinth and taught us; and both alike, teaching similarly in Italy, suffered martyrdom at the same time" (Epistle to Pope Soter of Rome [A.D. 166], in Eusebius, History of the Church 2:25:8).



IRENAEUS

"Matthew also issued among the Hebrews a written Gospel in their own language, while Peter and Paul were evangelizing in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church" (Against Heresies, 3:1:1 [A.D. 189]).

Then, too, so do ...



CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA

"The circumstances which occasioned . . . [the writing] of Mark were these: When Peter preached the Word publicly at Rome and declared the gospel by the Spirit, many who were present requested that Mark, who had been a long time his follower and who remembered his sayings, should write down what had been proclaimed" (Sketches [A.D. 190], in a fragment from Eusebius, History of the Church, 6:14:1).



GAIUS

"It is recorded that Paul was beheaded in Rome itself and Peter, likewise, was crucified, during the reign [of the Emperor Nero]. The account is confirmed by the names of Peter and Paul over the cemeteries there, which remain to the present time. And it is confirmed also by a stalwart man of the Church, Gaius by name, who lived in the time of Zephyrinus, bishop of Rome" (Disputation with Proclus [A.D. 198] in Eusebius, History of the Church 2:25:5).



TERTULLIAN

"But if you are near Italy, you have Rome, where authority is at hand for us too. What a happy church that is, on which the apostles poured out their whole doctrine with their blood, where Peter had a passion like that of the Lord, where Paul was crowned with the death of John [the Baptist, by being beheaded]" (De Prescriptione 36 [A.D. 200]).

4 posted on 01/07/2007 6:17:46 AM PST by NYer (Apart from the cross, there is no other ladder by which we may get to Heaven. St. Rose of Lima)
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To: NYer
Your question has no bearing on this topic. But since you raised it, other church Fathers have written about Peter in Rome.

My apologies. I saw Justin Martyr's name in the title and thought this was about him and/or his writings. I was just curious as to how he explained the transubstantiation of the Eucharist there in Rome without reference to Peter, the keys, the 25 year episcopacy, the priesthood, etc.

In reading through the Scriptures, I find that the original Lord's Supper and subsequent communion gatherings of the church were more like pot lucks than what later became the Mass. The people ate supper together and then afterwards ate and drank the consecrated bread and wine. In Justin Martur's day in Rome, were they still more like pot lucks, I wonder?.

5 posted on 01/07/2007 6:44:01 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: NYer
It doesn't.

protestant services are man made and they were created to supplant the Sacrifice of the Mass. Sadly, protestants do not have a Sacrificial Worship. It is, IOW, worship unacceptable to God.

Worship acceptable to God is the Worship Jesus Himself Commanded. His Last Supper/First Mass is the Pluperfect Sacrifice of the New Covenant and it is the Heavenly Banquet of the New Covenant

the 16th century revolutionaries rejected the Sacrifice of the Mass and substituted songs and sermons in its place.

Malchias 1 prophesied a perfect Sacrifice and Oblation - the prot revolutionaries falsified Holy Writ, excised Sacrifice and Oblation and substituted words congruent with their non-sacrificial ideology - and Jesus Commanded that Sacrificial Worship via the Eucharist continue until the end of time.

the prot revolutionaries thought Jesus was wrong in Commanding us to Worship God as He Commanded. He had to decrease. They had to increase

A the Lasst Supper, and in the Mass/Divine Liturgy, Jesus, as both priest and victim, offers Himself to God as an act of propitiation and we Redeemed Christians, gathered at the altar with the Ordained Priest, offer our lives - works, joys, sufferings etc - and our Sacrifice, matched with Jesus' PluPerfect Sacrifice is thereby made acceptable to God and innumerable Angels, gathered about the altar, take our Sacrifice to the Altar in Heaven.

meanwhile, on the other side of town...songs and a sermon

11 posted on 01/07/2007 11:59:20 AM PST by bornacatholic
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