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To: conservonator

Each one of your statements is true, but if one adds anything to faith as an unbeliever, it will void the state iin which the Holy Spirit might find anything righteous to work upon, i.e. the initial saving faith which comes from God upon the call.

So also, when we perform works, if those also are not performed through feloowship with Him, then they are merely our personal attempts to make order out of disorder or living in a worldly system after we have eternal life.

By all means after eternal life, when we continue to live in fellowship with Him through faith in Christ, we put on the mind of Christ and as the new man obedience to the law becomes the new man, whereas the old man or old sin nature will continue to naturally rebel and seek either the flesh or worldly systems of good or evil to satisfy a hope for life void of Christ. By remaining in fellowship with Him we accept His faith, which always comes from God.

Grace indeed precedes faith inpart becasue all faith comes from God as His gift without anything expected in anticipation of return. The initial saving faith is further formed in processes by the enabling work of the Holy Spirit, whcih function while we remain in fellowshio with Him by our own volition, which denies the old man and taking on the new man. Our old heart is scarred from thinking processes of the soul past influenced by the old man. We are not defiled from within but by that which comes from our heart. When God the Holy Spirit works on our heart by first making the LOGOS understood through our spirit and spiritual perception, again by grace, then in our mind to our rational perception, again by grace and by our remaining in faith through Christ, and then formed into an outeard knowledge categorized in our heart as a tool for our soul to exercise in facing daily problems, again by His grace and our remaining in felloship with Him by faith through Christ,..then we have the opportunity to manifest good works, which again only occur while we remain in faith through Christ and deny the old man.

In all of these steps, though, if we substitute a faith through Christ only, with a faith in God plus anything else, we step out of the mind of Christ and return back to the old sin nature which is the old man, or selfish thinking attempting to make order out of chaos, independent of Him.

Faith precedes our living in Him, but is requisite for all growth, abiding, and walking in the newness of life through our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.


248 posted on 01/06/2007 2:11:58 AM PST by Cvengr
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To: Cvengr
Each one of your statements is true, but if one adds anything to faith as an unbeliever, it will void the state iin which the Holy Spirit might find anything righteous to work upon, i.e. the initial saving faith which comes from God upon the call.

How are we made worthy of faith? What must happen before we are able to receive the grace of faith?

So also, when we perform works, if those also are not performed through feloowship with Him, then they are merely our personal attempts to make order out of disorder or living in a worldly system after we have eternal life.

Very Catholic, and as such true. We are incapable of saving our selves.

By all means after eternal life, when we continue to live in fellowship with Him through faith in Christ, we put on the mind of Christ and as the new man obedience to the law becomes the new man, whereas the old man or old sin nature will continue to naturally rebel and seek either the flesh or worldly systems of good or evil to satisfy a hope for life void of Christ. By remaining in fellowship with Him we accept His faith, which always comes from God.

After eternal life? Not sure what you mean by that. The new man is the man made ready to receive and cooperate with sanctifying grace due to his rebirth. The old man is incapable of cooperating with grace because he has not been born again by water and the Spirit. Faith does not equal salvation, it is evidence of rebirth. Faith alone is not a saving faith, it is dead, as scripture records.

257 posted on 01/06/2007 7:02:02 PM PST by conservonator (Pray for those suffering)
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