Are you saved?

Pastor Ricky Kurth

[Cap'n Crunch]

Didn't this "Saved" thing start about the end of the 1800's?

[cva66snipe]

It fits perfectly with what I posted. Your life could end at any moment. Even if you are saved, as you claim you are, you could fall away before you die

You could if not for Grace through Christ. The Good Shepherd knows his sheep and calls then by name. The one and the only sin that can not be forgiven of man is Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The ultimate and complete rejection of the call to salvation given to a person.

Life hands persons events that can make them fall events beyond what their spirit and mind can take. Does it mean they fall beyond the very salvation given them if they can not recover from it? No. But it does mean that their life on earth is not peaceful as GOD would desire. The cost for that is paid here on earth.

The saved person fallen who doesn't repent will be among the least in the Kingdom on Heaven. Unless our final words on this earth are "LORD please forgive me" we all die in our sins one are as bad as a hundred before GOD. The wages of sin is death and all will be required to pay it. Sin is just that. You are just as guilty at that point as the drunk Deacon or the thief or even the preacher who left fly a few foul words when working on the house. Even the saved shall give account for their deeds and thoughts.

This isn't an accounting to condemn you to hell but rather to determine your rewards in the Kingdom of Heaven as your sinful body and mind has passed away and is taken away separated from the new reborn person at our physical death.

These two conditions of man co-exist in each other till death do they part. No one not even the Pope will live without sin even after excepting salvation. If it were possible then salvation through Christ would not be needed. It is a preparation for a life in the Kingdom GOD has readied for us.

While we most certainly will pay for our sins on earth we will know them no more when we die and come before GOD as they will be removed from us and we will be reborn beings as GOD originally intended for us to be without sin and the curse. GOD will look upon us at that time and will not see our sins but rather His Son.

[Clemenza]

Jesus saves...at the Wal Mart in Laredo.

[Iscool]

And I am supposed to seriously entertain the idea Jesus established a Church and let it fail.

Nope...The church is alive and well...

I am supposed to think Jesus sent the Holy Spirit upon the Church to teach it error.

The fact that you think Jesus sent the Holy spirit upon your church is the error...

And, far from being the pillar and ground of truth, the Church Jesus esstablished is a fountain of evil and lies and heresies and we Christians who trust in Jesus' promises are really dupes who don't hear Jesus when the Church Teaches

You only hear Jesus when your church teaches what Jesus said, when He said it, where He said it and whom He said it too...

- we are Christians who are hearing Satan, not Jesus.

Why would you find this remarkable???

2Co 11:13 For such false apostles are deceitful workmen, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no wonder: for Satan himself transformeth himself into an angel of light.

Me Jesus keeps His promises. My Jesus does not abandon His Bride at the altar. My Jesus is with His Church - The Catholic Church - until the end of time. My Jesus is one who sent the Holy Spirit upon the Church to Teach it all truth -not lies.

Jesus did not send the Holy Spirit to your church...He sent the Holy Spirit to all Christians...And he sent the bible to teach us all truth...

Your church says you must attend your Catholic church for, what is it, a year, before you can become a Christian...God tells us we must become Christians before we can join His church...Quite a little difference there...You can not join God's church before you are a Christian...So you think you got the right church???

[Iscool]

Didn't this "Saved" thing start about the end of the 1800's?

Only in the Catholic church...Around the time Catholics, as a group, started reading the scripture...

It's been in the bible since, uh, the 1st Century...

[Cap'n Crunch]

Oh, you must be a historian. I like history too. Can you give me some names of Christians who believed that Baptism was unnecessary? Can you show me their writings? All the way back to the time of Christ?

I did a little research, all I can come up with is some heretics called the Anabaptists, who may have believed such.

I don't think Jesus said that he was going to leave us a Bible. He did say He was going to leave us a Church though.

[Rhadaghast]

I think you have missed something important.

You say 'if you sin egregiously...' In God's eye's any sin is egregious! By saying murder is different then failing to love your neighbor last Tuesday is simply a man made difference!

God does not measure sin one from another. One lye makes you a lier and to be cast into the lake of fire; eternally.

Oh, and by the way, if you fail to keep hold of Christ, their is no other way for you to be saved, ever, again. Did you miss that as well?

You either have eternal security or you have no eternal anything. No amount of sacraments will replace that lose of salvation. Their is a fundament lack of understanding when it comes to Sin.

Finally Man's doctrine continues to miss the verses they do not agree with.

Please explain to me Romans 8:1+2. 1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

If their is no condemnation then their is no possibility of being unsaved. The law of sin and death is no longer in power in my life. All of this is past tense; i.e. after salvation. Do you read this differently?

[Rhadaghast]

Absolutely I agree that The Church, the membership of all believers into one body is the church of the living God. It just is not encompassed by the Roman Catholic Church. There are many church members, saved and complete outside of the RCC.

[Iscool]

Can you give me some names of Christians who believed that Baptism was unnecessary? Can you show me their writings? All the way back to the time of Christ?

What would be the point??? You'd just continue with the typical Catholic Triangulation and avoid the subject like always...

I did a little research, all I can come up with is some heretics called the Anabaptists, who may have believed such.

You mean you did a little 'Catholic' research...And found that the Anabaptists were heretical to the Catholic church...And no doubt they figured your religion was heretical to their church...So what's new??? The question is, which group is heretical to the bible???

I don't think Jesus said that he was going to leave us a Bible.

Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation forever.

He said it...Your church has convinced you to not believe it...

He did say He was going to leave us a Church though.

And He said he would leave his written word so that the church would have something to teach...And He did...But YOUR church doesn't want you to know that...

[Cap'n Crunch]

The point is: you can't give me any names or writings by people who believe baptism is unnecessary. Because it's a false doctrine of individuals outside of Christ's teachings. People who proof-text and take Scripture out of context.

There is no historical basis for being "Saved." There is no Biblical standing for it either, without taking Scripture out of context.

Your quotes from Scripture are from the Old Testament, not from Jesus, who promised to leave us a Church, not a bible. And, they have nothing to do with a "Bible."

Show me some proof/history of your doctrine.

[Conservative til I die]

Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence,) with fear and trembling work out your salvation.

And you shall be hated by all men for my name's sake: but he that shall persevere unto the end, he shall be saved.

Bears repeating. Scripture shows thatsalvation is not as simplistic as the sola fide folks say.

If we're saved, why do the Scriptures say we need to persevere?

[Conservative til I die]

"and they follow Me"

Yes, they will be saved if they follow Jesus. And following Him means believing and living that belief through their thoughts, words, and deeds.

Even the demons believe Christ is the Son of God.

[cva66snipe]

There is no historical basis for being "Saved." There is no Biblical standing for it either, without taking Scripture out of context.

Luke 7 v50: 50And Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Did Christ know there would be many churches to follow teaching the Gospel after his death and resurrection? I think so. And how would he feel about other churches other than the ones his chosen Disciples and Apostles established?

Mark 9 33After they arrived at Capernaum, Jesus and his disciples settled in the house where they would be staying. Jesus asked them, "What were you discussing out on the road?" 34But they didn’t answer, because they had been arguing about which of them was the greatest. 35He sat down and called the twelve disciples over to him. Then he said, "Anyone who wants to be the first must take last place and be the servant of everyone else." 36Then he put a little child among them. Taking the child in his arms, he said to them, 37"Anyone who welcomes a little child like this on my behalf welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes my Father who sent me." The Disciples Forbid Another to Use Jesus’ Name (/Luke 9:49-50) 38John said to Jesus, "Teacher, we saw a man using your name to cast out demons, but we told him to stop because he isn’t one of our group." 39"Don’t stop him!" Jesus said. "No one who performs miracles in my name will soon be able to speak evil of me. 40Anyone who is not against us is for us. 41If anyone gives you even a cup of water because you belong to the Messiah, I assure you, that person will be rewarded.

Churches ALL of them need to get over trying to convert other believers churches and condemning them and concentrate instead on spreading the Gospel. Salvation is simple. It is is so simple a child can understand it. Yet all of mans doctrines added to it put us back to the state we were under judgment of the law before Christ died on the cross.

Christ gave us all the way the truth and the light. He gave us the ONE who leads us into all truths "The Holy Spirit". It dwells in the hearts of man. If a man is Catholic and that is where GOD called him to be Bless him and be happy for him the same for a Baptist or a Pentecostal. We serve the same Savior. Be happy the same Christ hears and saves us all despite ourselves and all our church doctrines written of man.

[armydoc]

Yes, they will be saved if they follow Jesus. And following Him means believing and living that belief through their thoughts, words, and deeds.

Your Church teaches that salvation is possible apart from following Jesus.

[Uri’el-2012]

Salvation | sal?v? sh ?n | noun

Theology deliverance from sin and its consequences,
believed by Christians to be brought about by faith in Christ.

• preservation or deliverance from harm, ruin, or loss : they try to sell it to us as economic salvation.
• ( one's salvation) a source or means of being saved in this way : his only salvation was to outfly the enemy.
ORIGIN Middle English : from Old French salvacion, from ecclesiastical Latin salvation- (from salvare ‘to save’ ), translating Greek s?t?ria.

Exodus 15:2
"YHvH is my strength and song,
And He has become my salvation;
This is my God, and I will praise Him;
My father's God, and I will extol Him.

Psalms 118:14
YHvH is my strength and song,
And He has become my salvation.

Psalms 118:21
I shall give thanks to You, for You have answered me,
And You have become my salvation.

Isaiah 12:2
"Behold, God is my salvation,
I will trust and not be afraid;
For YHvH GOD is my strength and song,
And He has become my salvation."

b'shem Y'shua

[Cvengr]

There are various works of God which stand eternally.

When He gives a believer everlasting life in the spirit, even God Himself is unable to remove that life on His Soveriegnty. He is immutable.

Our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus sacrificed His spirit for us once and it was returned to the one found righteous for His faith.

We were all originally condemned, but upon that initial saving faith, were regenerated in the spirit.

The issue is eternal life. Once given, it may not be removed or else God Himself is unrighteous to the faith of the Son.

This doesn't mean a believer isn't able to sin after salvation. Post-salvation sin merely means we are not in fellowship with Him, not that the Holy Spirit ceases to indwell us. Falling away from God, after regenerated or reborn again, simply means we have turned to anything other than God after salvation.

After salvation, we have our first hope stisfied, i.e. we have eternal life. The next hope we are taught is to become doers of the Word. This we accomplish by renewing our minds daily with the mind of Christ. By returning to God, through faith in Him, we immediately confess our sins to Him through faith as royal priests. He is sure and just to forgive us those sins. We continue to abide in Him so that the enabling ministry of the Holy Spirit works in our thinking, by taking the LOGOS we read and making it supernaturally understood to our spirit, then making that spiritual knowledge known to our mind as GNOSIS, then again by the Holy SPirit, He makes that information in our mind known as an outward knowledge in our heart as EPIGNOSIS. When we apply that outward knowledge to situations we face in life we have an opportunity to become a doer of the Word, manifesting the power of the Spirit in our lives. All these things happen while we remain in fellowship with Him.

When we sin, or think about anything independent of Him, then we step out of fellowship and the Holy Spirit's ministry in our thinking is interruptted. We also scar our thinking or our souls, by thinking we can live in a counterfeit system of making order out of chaos independent of Him. Such is the worldly system which is parlayed into evil by the Adversary.

Nothing we can do will ever remove us from the love of God. Once we are in His family, we are His and none other.

[Cvengr]

The phrasing of Scripture takes man up to Christ rather than lowering Christ to man.

There is no need to state that those who don;t persevere, will have other things occur. On the contrary, neither does the Scripture state categorically that salvation is limited to those who persevere in all things at all times.

It is instruction for those who may face adversity so as not to lay aside any provision for sin.

[Cvengr]

Perseverence also extends into the working ministries of the Holy Spirit in the sanctification processes of the believer. When we fail to persevere, we interrupt His work in us.

This doesn't mean we are killed every time we sin.

[Rhadaghast]

Love your tag line!

[Rhadaghast]

Not that I don't agree with you, but many of the eternal security group do not deal with two passages that I ask about.

One is Rev 3:5 5'(O)He who overcomes will thus be clothed in (P)white garments; and I will not (Q)erase his name from the book of life, and (R)I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

And

Matthew 6:14-15 14For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.