Posted on 12/29/2006 4:47:11 AM PST by cowboyfan88
Edited on 12/29/2006 8:32:56 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
I encourage you to read Scripture with only a simple faith in Christ and allow Him to do His work in you.
Faith + Works voids a saving faith.
But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
Faith + Obedience voids a saving faith.
If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
Faith + Inviting the Lord into your Heart voids a saving faith.
Grace precedes faith which is the very act of the Lord entering your heart. Faith begets belief and belief moves the faithful believer to cooperate in works, obedient to his will. Read Matthew 25 again.
Any particular reason post 242 was removed?
If you'd care to rephrase and repost, I'll be glad to send the removed post to you by Freepmail.
If you'd care to rephrase and repost, I'll be glad to send the removed post to you by Freepmail.
The quote came from James 2:20, not sure how comfortable I am with rephrasing the words of God when I'm quoting Him ;)
LOL! My bad (I didn't recognize it without the cite.) I'll restore it.
Thanks, I'll cite as a rule from now on.
Each one of your statements is true, but if one adds anything to faith as an unbeliever, it will void the state iin which the Holy Spirit might find anything righteous to work upon, i.e. the initial saving faith which comes from God upon the call.
So also, when we perform works, if those also are not performed through feloowship with Him, then they are merely our personal attempts to make order out of disorder or living in a worldly system after we have eternal life.
By all means after eternal life, when we continue to live in fellowship with Him through faith in Christ, we put on the mind of Christ and as the new man obedience to the law becomes the new man, whereas the old man or old sin nature will continue to naturally rebel and seek either the flesh or worldly systems of good or evil to satisfy a hope for life void of Christ. By remaining in fellowship with Him we accept His faith, which always comes from God.
Grace indeed precedes faith inpart becasue all faith comes from God as His gift without anything expected in anticipation of return. The initial saving faith is further formed in processes by the enabling work of the Holy Spirit, whcih function while we remain in fellowshio with Him by our own volition, which denies the old man and taking on the new man. Our old heart is scarred from thinking processes of the soul past influenced by the old man. We are not defiled from within but by that which comes from our heart. When God the Holy Spirit works on our heart by first making the LOGOS understood through our spirit and spiritual perception, again by grace, then in our mind to our rational perception, again by grace and by our remaining in faith through Christ, and then formed into an outeard knowledge categorized in our heart as a tool for our soul to exercise in facing daily problems, again by His grace and our remaining in felloship with Him by faith through Christ,..then we have the opportunity to manifest good works, which again only occur while we remain in faith through Christ and deny the old man.
In all of these steps, though, if we substitute a faith through Christ only, with a faith in God plus anything else, we step out of the mind of Christ and return back to the old sin nature which is the old man, or selfish thinking attempting to make order out of chaos, independent of Him.
Faith precedes our living in Him, but is requisite for all growth, abiding, and walking in the newness of life through our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.
Continue to James 2:26 in regards to works which are deemed worthy by Him. The lesson is that once we are saved, we are not to stop in our eternal life, but to continue in faith through Christ, allowing the Holy SPirit to further sanctify us, thereby we are then able to perform the good works He created us to perform.
And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.
He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me.
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth
And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.
But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.
But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself; but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak; and the things that are to come, he shall shew you.
Those who fail to live through faith in Him are not the body of Christ.
"The Judgment has already occured on the Cross. Another series of judgments occur..."
Gee, I'm glad you have all these judgments sorted out. Jesus laid all this out in His words? Guess I missed that.
I guess you'll quote some obscure Pauline words to me now.
Your theology is a little too complicated.
Let me help you out. You murder somebody, you commit adultery, abuse children, and perhaps some other serious sins, then you proceed to not ask God's forgiveness, you risk serious judgment, perhaps including hell.
Salvation is independent of morality for the perspective of the condemned, although the condemned are scarred in their thinking to confuse morality with salvation.
Jesus laid all this out in His words?
Perhaps you missed that in my earlier post.
You know, about all the judgments, and such....
But you don't have any support for one sin being greater than another. In fact, liers are lumped in with murderers in several passages.
How do you determine what is or is not a greater sin?
All sin is sin.
No support?
Mark 9:42:And whosoever shall cause one of these little ones that believe on me to stumble, it were better for him if a great millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Is there any greater condemnation that Jesus ever gave?
No.
Surely these people will go to hell, if they do not ask God's forgiveness.
How are we made worthy of faith? What must happen before we are able to receive the grace of faith?
So also, when we perform works, if those also are not performed through feloowship with Him, then they are merely our personal attempts to make order out of disorder or living in a worldly system after we have eternal life.
Very Catholic, and as such true. We are incapable of saving our selves.
By all means after eternal life, when we continue to live in fellowship with Him through faith in Christ, we put on the mind of Christ and as the new man obedience to the law becomes the new man, whereas the old man or old sin nature will continue to naturally rebel and seek either the flesh or worldly systems of good or evil to satisfy a hope for life void of Christ. By remaining in fellowship with Him we accept His faith, which always comes from God.
After eternal life? Not sure what you mean by that. The new man is the man made ready to receive and cooperate with sanctifying grace due to his rebirth. The old man is incapable of cooperating with grace because he has not been born again by water and the Spirit. Faith does not equal salvation, it is evidence of rebirth. Faith alone is not a saving faith, it is dead, as scripture records.
James 2:26 "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith with outworks is dead"
Not even viewed through the fractured prism of once saved always saved does the verse mean that works are not part of our salvation. Works of grace to be sure, not works of our own accord which are barren.
I agree. It is true that good works through the faith in Christ is part of our reborn life. It is not true that eternal life depends upon works without faith, nor that anything other than faith is required for eternal life, but eternal life continues beyond the rebirth to include continuing sanctification as manifest by our fruits of good works through faith in Christ.
As James 2:26 faith without works is a state of existence involving separation, namely a state of spirit life, along with life in our mind, and possibly our hearts, but without volition and action the soul and spirit are still separate from the body. Likewise, faith may exist as in our eternal spirit life, but still remain separate (dead) from our mind and hearts when we wtep out of fellowship with Him.
Salvation in not only our being saved from condemnation in eternity in the spirit, but also our anointing by God the Holy Spirit in all aspects faith. All faith is from God. The Holy Spirit enables us with faith of different types in various stages of the sanctification process, and if we ever stray from fellowship in those processes the sanctification continuance stops, but this does not imply the removal of an eternal human spirit life from the degenerate believer.
This merely points out by the mind of Christ, from a positive life filled perspective that our continuing in faith, as we should, will be dead, i.e. separate from another part of our human life, if we do not also perform works.
Human life is more than body and soul, it includes the human spirit which is regenerated upon saving faith.
I believe some catholic teachings refer to this as the formed faith as opposed to the intelligent faith or faith of the mind only, which hasn't advanced to faith in the heart, an outward stage of the soul. I haven't studied the exact meanings of the words used by some catholic doctrines in this regard, but it is easy to confuse the meanings of faith in context if not understood between some RCC doctrines and protestant perspectives. The true meaning is obviously the same for both.
The father makes the call. Faith is non-meritorious of the believer. The faith of the believer is the same faith which was found righteous in our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus (Rom 3:22-26). That faith is also provided by the grace of God.
I suspect we might be discussing some of the same differences between a formed faith and intelligent faith as used in Catholic doctrine, but using some Protestant doctrines regarding the mechanics of salvation, eternal life, sanctification, and regeneration.
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