4,000 Years of Christmas

Good News Magazine ^ | December 2003 | Gary Petty

[Diego1618]

[Lamentations 2:6] He has laid waste his dwelling like a garden; he has destroyed his place of meeting. The LORD has made Zion forget her appointed feasts and her Sabbaths; In his fierce anger he has spurned both king and priest.

Why did he do this? Was he angry? Why was he angry?

Ezekiel 22 gives us a good idea of the why of all of this anger of The Lord. (verse 8) "You have despised my holy things and desecrated my Sabbaths." (verse 15) says He will disperse us through the nations and scatter us to put an end to our uncleanness.

[Lamentations 5:19-22] tells us that the Israelites beg forgiveness and would seek restoration to "Our days of Old" (verse 21)....unless the Lord is angry with them beyond measure (verse 22).

[Isaiah 66:22-24] tells us that during the Millennium we will be observing one new moon to another and one Sabbath to another.....why shouldn't we now?

[DouglasKC]

Is this REALLY saying that the Baal worshipers had solemn feast days and sabbaths and observed the new moon?

Sure it is. Those who worship false gods try to duplicate God's feast days. In this case, I believe it's referring to some of the tribes of Israel who slipped into idolatry. Maybe they had their own feast days and sabbaths...kind of like how the Roman church created their own feast days and sabbaths. Or they're talking about God's feast days, but corrupted by idolatrous practices.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Sure it is. Those who worship false gods try to duplicate God's feast days. In this case, I believe it's referring to some of the tribes of Israel who slipped into idolatry. Maybe they had their own feast days and sabbaths...***


Yet when I read it I find that no sabbaths at all were kept. Hence the 70 years of exile. One year for each sabbath for the land.

[dsc]

"So what's the difference between golden calves and Christmas trees?"

1. Fires were built in the bellies of the golden calves and living human infants thrown on the flames.

2. A Christmas Tree is not an object of worship, but only a pretty decoration.

[dsc]

"He'll understand we're only trying to be holy"

Are you? Or is it that you think that's why other people celebrate Christmas?

I never imagined that religion was about "trying to be holy."

[xzins]

I say, it doesn't matter that he didn't tell his followers to worship him by using golden calves. He received heir worship of him personally.

I don't have to face anything. Your example is totally without merit. I makes no sense, it is not biblical, it is not even rational.

There is absolutely no parallel betweeen worshipping Jesus at his birth, which is a biblical story, and turning cows into gold and worshipping them. Find me a story of Jesus cavorting with golden cows, and you've got something.

Until then your point is pointless.

[xzins]

only a pretty decoration.

Bullseye.

A Christmas Tree is no different than a potted plant or a hanging on a wall or an Easter lilly.

It has apparently in the past also been a teaching aid.

[xzins]

I am dead to the law by the body of Christ.


Those who want to continue living under it are more than welcome to do so.

In my case, I don't have to, and I won't. Jesus set me free from the law.

[xzins]

Horsefeathers.

You bow your head when you pray the same as do the Hindus.

Why do you follow Hindu customs?

[xzins]

You'll need to give me more letters than that.

I can fit Hillbilly in it, but alas, there is no "o" in Hillbilly.

I would never be a wheel of fortune contestant, would I?

[aruanan]

Unfortunately those who observe it do it at the expense of the very same holy days that Jesus Christ created, observed, and commanded his followers to observe:

Not really, because, according to the New Testament:

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.--Colossians 2:16-17

And [Jesus] said unto them, "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath."--Mark 2:27-28

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.--Romans 14:5-6

But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.--Galatians 4:9-11

So, the OT festivals were to point to Christ. The purpose of observing or not observing a "day" as a "holyday" is an act of worship to the Lord. Thinking that observing a set of days in order to secure approval by God is to return to spiritual slavery. The most important uses of "day" in the New Testament are the Lord's Day (ie. meeting on the first day of the week rather than the seventh day of the week in commemoration of Jesus's resurrection from the dead and from the dead letter of the Law), the Day of the Lord (his return and judgment of the earth), and the current day, wherein we are supposed to hear his voice and not harden our hearts.

[aruanan]

If the Lord wanted the birth to be a remembrance, he and the Apostles would have lead by example. They didn't.

They also would have been discriminating enough to have spelled "lead" as "led". Besides, they spoke extensively about the birthday of Jesus. To cavil about "celebration" is playing with words. A celebration is a commemoration of the event. See both Matthew and Luke for quite detailed commemorations of the birth of Jesus. Ditto for John. As for the rest:

Unfortunately those who observe it do it at the expense of the very same holy days that Jesus Christ created, observed, and commanded his followers to observe:

Not really, because, according to the New Testament:

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.--Colossians 2:16-17

And [Jesus] said unto them, "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath."--Mark 2:27-28

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.--Romans 14:5-6

But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.--Galatians 4:9-11

So, the OT festivals were to point to Christ. The purpose of observing or not observing a "day" as a "holyday" is an act of worship to the Lord. Thinking that observing a set of days in order to secure approval by God is to return to spiritual slavery. Requiring such observances (and circumcision) to show that one really believed was a mark of the Judaizers. Paul and the others dealt effectively with them.

The most important uses of "day" in the New Testament are the Lord's Day (ie. meeting on the first day of the week rather than the seventh day of the week in commemoration of Jesus's resurrection from the dead and from the dead letter of the Law), the Day of the Lord (his return and judgment of the earth), and the current day, wherein we are supposed to hear his voice and not harden our hearts.

[xzins]

#72 is an excellent post and I amen it in its entirety.

Merry Christmas, Aruanan.

Those who don't celebrate Christmas probably don't celebrate the Lord's resurrection, either.

They are free NOT to do so, but they don't know it.

[big'ol_freeper]

Married? Wear a wedding ring?

Wedding Rings

Some Pagan items adopted by Christians

Paganism Where Should Christians Draw the Line?

Is the Cross a Pagan Symbol?

[DouglasKC]

There is absolutely no parallel betweeen worshipping Jesus at his birth, which is a biblical story, and turning cows into gold and worshipping them. Find me a story of Jesus cavorting with golden cows, and you've got something.

Find me a story of Jesus putting up a Christmas tree, kissing under the missile toe, telling people about Santa Claus and drinking eggnog and then you've got something.

I don't know why you just can't admit that people celebrate Christmas because it's a tradition.

[DouglasKC]

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.--Colossians 2:16-17

That verse doesn't mean what you think it does, especially when you put it back into context. This requires a long response, so bear with me.

1. Paul was combating a heresy within the early Christian church. He listed the hallmarks of this heresy:

Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,

Col 2:21 "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!" Col 2:22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)--in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?

So whatever Paul was addressing, it was composed of:

1. A philosophy
2. Deception
3. Tradition of men.
4. Elementary principles of the WORLD
5. Self-abasement
6. Worship of angels
7. Built around visions
8. Commandments of men
9. Teachings of men

God's holy days, Jesus's feast days, are NOT any of these. They are God given, teaching of God, NOT traditions of men. They aren't built around worship of angels.

Therefore Paul isn't saying that we SHOULD NOT observe God's holy days. Paul is saying that we shouldn't let these false teachers judge us on HOW we keep God's holy days. The only ones who should, and can, judge us is the body of Christ.

[DouglasKC]

And [Jesus] said unto them, "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath."--Mark 2:27-28

The sabbath was made for man. And Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath. The sabbath was created for man's benefit, partly so that we can know who the one, true God is. Look at the 4th commandment:

Exo 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

REMEMBER to keep the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Why?

Exo 20:9 "Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.

Why is the sabbath important?

Exo 20:11 "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

And what is the sabbath a sign of?

Exo 31:16 'So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.'
Exo 31:17 "It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed."

Indeed, Jesus DID create the sabbath for us.

[DouglasKC]

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.--Romans 14:5-6

Again, devoid of context, this is meaningless. The first thing to note is that chapter 14 is dealing with an issue of eating practices, not whether or not to observe the holy days that Jesus Christ created and observed. The proof of this is here.

1. In chapter 14, the following verses all directly mention eating practices:

Rom 14:2 One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.
Rom 14:3 The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.

Rom 14:6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

Rom 14:15 For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.

Rom 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Rom 14:20 Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense.
Rom 14:21 It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles.

Rom 14:23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.

So out of 23 verse, a full 1/3 of them directly mention eating practices. The rest are pretty much support for these statements. The verse you mention even clarifies itself in the next verse.

The "days" Paul is talking about here are either days devoted to fasting and/or talking about meat sacrificed to idols and then consumed.

2. There are specific, greek words in scripture that designate God's holy days. These words ARE used in Colossians 2, but are NOT used here. The word is:

heortē
Of uncertain affinity; a festival: - feast, holyday

This word is ALWAYS used in scripture to designate God's feast days, as opposed to any other feast day.

For example:

Joh 10:22 At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place at Jerusalem;

The "Feast of Dedication" is Hannakah. Hannakah isn't a God given feast day, although it is not condemned in the bible. But it is not a "heorte". The word is not used here.

What has happened is that you have been taught, out of context and out of historical perspective, that somehow these verses condemn or do away with observing festivals tha Jesus Christ created and commanded his followers to observe. You've been hoodwinked my friend.

[muawiyah]

There are hundreds of millions of people in this world today who carry exactly the same genes carried by the earliest Sumerians who invented writing.

All Jews carry those genes.

[muawiyah]

The "Tree of Life" is far, far more ancient than that.