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To: xzins; blue-duncan; Uncle Chip; DouglasKC; jkl1122

Several years ago I read a very interesting book. WHICH BIBLE edited by David Otis Fuller.
In it he printed and excerpt from Dean Burgon in the late 1880's. Burgon showed how the English language had changed from the time of Elizabeth to now(1880).
Words like "discover and prevent" today do not mean what they ment in the 1500's.
We can see it in the change of meaning of words by the Hippie culture 45 years ago. Words like "Funky" (cowardly, is now 'hip', cool', 'with it') and "Rip off" (tear off is now 'steal', 'gyp', 'con') do not mean the same they did then.
Burgon also points out how the GREEK language has changed over the years also from 300 BC to 400AD.

Consider this..In 300BC the word Baptize ment immerse, submerge,or dip.
By 125AD Baptism ment sprinkle, wash, dip,immerse. We have the Greek writings today to prove it.
So, your beloved "baptism" may not have been a dipping after all.


52 posted on 12/21/2006 6:20:17 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (When someone burns a cross on your lawn the best firehose is an AK-47.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

I think I'm on your side in this debate.


53 posted on 12/21/2006 6:37:03 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

I think the transition of a word over that period of time is certainly of interest. It's short-sighted to ignore such information.


54 posted on 12/21/2006 6:54:04 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

Regardless the Greek language meaning, I can testify that when I am in fellowhip with God through faith in Christ, I find I may volitionally intend my faith to be the same as the mind of Christ only by placing faith in Him in my thinking.

As I study Bible doctrine is is brought into me and worked upon by the Holy Spirit as long as I remain in faith with Christ and the doctrine changes from a simple mental GNOSIS, to an EPIGNOSIS in my heart, but only as I remain faithful through Him.

I sense a very real parallel to the physical act of baptism by water, even immersion, as a rehearsal of my thinking to remain in faith in Him in all things, while the Holy Spirit performs His work in me.

If I breath while underwater, it is similar to using my volition to do something other than what He intends, resulting in the exhale of EPIGNOSIS not being successful.

Am I the only one here who perceives this thype of spiritual association with the act of water baptism, or do others find an actual physical change to our bodies during the process (other than getting all wet.)?


55 posted on 12/21/2006 7:14:16 PM PST by Cvengr
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

The meaning of the word at the time the New Testament was written is what is important. 125 AD is too late to have any bearing on the writings of the New Testament.


56 posted on 12/22/2006 5:29:06 AM PST by jkl1122
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