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To: Forest Keeper; kawaii
You allowed us to break away from you in the first place so you are fully responsible.

God has given man "free will". The Church cannot overide the will of God.

In addition, and using your logic, all the unworthy priests who have ever lived are a direct reflection on your faith. Why didn't you stop them?

This follows the same logic as above. Free will. Applying your logic then, if God knows everything and He knows that someone is about to murder someone else, why doesn't He stop them?

By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23).

But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

64 posted on 01/07/2007 3:15:34 AM PST by NYer (Apart from the cross, there is no other ladder by which we may get to Heaven. St. Rose of Lima)
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To: NYer; kawaii
God has given man "free will". The Church cannot override the will of God.

I agree, no one can. That's why I think it is unfair for us to be criticized for the cults that break away from Biblical Protestant Christianity. That's the issue I was responding to.

Applying your logic then, if God knows everything and He knows that someone is about to murder someone else, why doesn't He stop them?

Because it is clear that God has decided to allow sin in the world. Perhaps He has a millions reasons for this. One that I can think of is that the existence of sin helps believers know, appreciate, and love God to a higher degree. My point in saying what I said, though, was the same as the above. It is unfair to diminish or criticize my faith based on the actions and beliefs of others who do not hold my faith.

Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23).

I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of John 6:70. That was a direct reference to Judas. I don't see any direct relation to "the Church", which wasn't even established yet. My view is that Judas was never a member of "the Church". He was "chosen" for a specific purpose, but he was never a believer.

Again, in Matt. 7, Jesus doesn't reference members of "the Church", even implicitly. He only says "many" or "those". I do not think He was talking about actual believers. I WOULD agree that there are many who call themselves members of the RCC, AND many who call themselves members of the Baptist church (my church) who will not enter Heaven. I think that is totally separate from being a member of "God's Church".

73 posted on 01/12/2007 3:50:59 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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