Posted on 12/05/2006 8:37:07 AM PST by xzins
Professor Shows Accuracy of Bible's Christmas Story, Debunks Popular Myths
PITTSBURGH, Dec. 5 /PRNewswire/ -- We only have a vague idea of when Jesus Christ was born. Matthew made up the star's appearance. The dating of Christmas is an accommodation to a pagan feast. Hebrew prophesy doesn't say that a "virgin" would give birth.
"Bunk!" That's how Dr. Jack Kinneer describes the above statements as popular myths assuming the implausibility of Biblical narrative about the birth of Jesus. Kinneer is a New Testament professor at the Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary (RPTS) in Pittsburgh. [See http://www.rpts.edu]
"What is implausible is that someone could make up this story, but what is entirely plausible is that someone chronicling these historical events would include such confirmable facts," Kinneer said.
His December Greek classes correct assaults on the Christmas story by holiday documentaries, instructing on what the languages and literary structure of Scripture communicate and how ancient records and modern astronomy support them.
Dr. Kinneer Replies to Popular Christmas Myths:
Myth: We can only vaguely date when Jesus was born.
Reply: "Scripture, ancient history, and modern astronomy enable us to pinpoint Jesus' birth within the winter months of 5-4 B.C."
Myth: Matthew made up the appearance of a star.
Reply: "Modern astronomy calculations confirm extraordinary celestial phenomena during this exact time period."
Myth: It is implausible that the Magi would have traveled from Persia to see the star.
Reply: "It is implausible that they would not journey to see it, as they were not kings, but astrologers. It was their job to study and interpret luminaries in light of ancient prophecies."
Myth: Jesus' birth was at the star's appearance, several years before the Magi's arrival.
Reply: "Herod's decree to kill Hebrew sons two years old and under after the Magi's visit presumes the birth of Jesus may have just occurred. Matthew's Greek grammar describes the birth of Jesus as the timely setting of the Magi's arrival."
Myth: Jesus was two to three years old when the Magi arrived.
Reply: "He was no more than a few months old."
Myth: The dating of Christmas on December 25 accommodates a pagan feast.
Reply: "It is a calculated estimation from when the angel appeared to Zechariah during his datable priestly duties."
Myth: The Hebrew "virgin" birth citation is embellished.
Reply: "The Isaiah 7:14 quote was interpreted as "virgin" by Jews centuries before New Testament times."
Myth: Joseph and Mary's flight to Egypt was a long overland journey and stay of a number of years.
Reply: It was probably a brief boat trip and a stay of only a few weeks to a month, which fits the setting of historical political events."
"Popular culture suggests doubts about Scripture, but good scholarship demonstrates that the Bible's Christmas story particulars are precise and other known facts easily fit if you've done your homework," said Kinneer.
RPTS is the fifth oldest seminary in the nation, and will celebrate its bicentennial in 2010.Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary
CONTACT: Grant Van Leuven of RPTS, 1-866-RPTS-EDU, or gvanleuven@rpts.edu
Web site: http://www.rpts.edu/
Reformed Presbyterian Professor.
Is this grpl ping-worthy?
Nice thread, x.
But your link to the Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary doesn't work. This one does.
http://www.rpts.edu
Reply: "Herod's decree to kill Hebrew sons two years old and under after the Magi's visit presumes the birth of Jesus may have just occurred. Matthew's Greek grammar describes the birth of Jesus as the timely setting of the Magi's arrival."
The above was what caught my eye. Every year we see Nativity scenes showing the "Three Wise men" (it does not say three and it says Magi) Matthew 2:1 | tou <3588> de <1161> {NOW} ihsou <2424> {JESUS} gennhqentoV <1080> (5685) {HAVING BEEN BORN} en <1722> {IN} bhqleem <965> thV <3588> {BETHLEHEM} ioudaiaV <2449> {OF JUDEA,} en <1722> {IN} hmeraiV <2250> {[THE] DAYS} hrwdou <2264> {OF HEROD} tou <3588> {THE} basilewV <935> {KING,} idou <2400> (5628) {BEHOLD,} magoi <3097> {MAGI} apo <575> {FROM} anatolwn <395> {[THE] EAST} paregenonto <3854> (5633) {ARRIVED} eiV <1519> {AT} ierosoluma <2414> {JERUSALEM,}.
The scripture does render it "past tense" in the Greek and also says Jesus is now a little child when they visit....and is now living in a house....not a stable. Matthew 2:11 kai <2532> {AND} elqonteV <2064> (5631) {HAVING COME} eiV <1519> {INTO} thn <3588> {THE} oikian <3614> {HOUSE,} euron <2147> (5627) {THEY FOUND} to <3588> {THE} paidion <3813> {LITTLE CHILD} meta <3326> {WITH} mariaV <3137> thV <3588> {MARY} mhtroV <3384> autou <846> {HIS MOTHER,} kai <2532> {AND} pesonteV <4098> (5631) {HAVING FALLEN DOWN} prosekunhsan <4352> (5656) {DID HOMAGE} autw <846> {TO HIM:} kai <2532> {AND} anoixanteV <455> (5660) touV <3588> {HAVING OPENED} qhsaurouV <2344> {TREASURES} autwn <846> {THEIR} proshnegkan <4374> (5656) {THEY OFFERED} autw <846> {TO HIM} dwra <1435> {GIFTS;} cruson <5557> {GOLD} kai <2532> {AND} libanon <3030> {FRANKINCENSE} kai <2532> {AND} smurnan <4666> {MYRRH.}
The only place in scripture that talks of the birth is in Luke and Jesus is indeed in a manger and is referred to as a baby. Luke 2:12 kai <2532> {AND} touto <5124> {THIS [IS]} umin <5213> {TO YOU} to <3588> {THE} shmeion <4592> {SIGN:} eurhsete <2147> (5692) {YE SHALL FIND} brefoV <1025> {A BABE} esparganwmenon <4683> (5772) {WRAPPED IN SWADDLING CLOTHES,} keimenon <2749> (5740) {LYING} en <1722> {IN} th <3588> {THE} fatnh <5336> {MANGER.} There is no mention of "The Wise Men" in the book of Luke.
The reason all the boys two and under were ordered killed by Herod is simple. Matthew 2:7 tote <5119> {THEN} hrwdhV <2264> {HEROD,} laqra <2977> {SECRETLY} kalesaV <2564> (5660) {HAVING CALLED} touV <3588> {THE} magouV <3097> {MAGI,} hkribwsen <198> (5656) {INQUIRED ACCURATELY} par <3844> {OF} autwn <846> {THEM} ton <3588> {THE} cronon <5550> {TIME} tou <3588> {OF THE} fainomenou <5316> (5730) {APPEARING} asteroV <792> {STAR.}.....and...... Matthew 2:16 | tote <5119> {THEN} hrwdhV <2264> {HEROD,} idwn <1492> (5631) {HAVING SEEN} oti <3754> {THAT} enepaicqh <1702> (5681) {HE WAS MOCKED} upo <5259> {BY} twn <3588> {THE} magwn <3097> {MAGI,} equmwqh <2373> (5681) {WAS ENRAGED} lian <3029> {GREATLY,} kai <2532> {AND} aposteilaV <649> (5660) {HAVING SENT} aneilen <337> (5627) {HE PUT TO DEATH} pantaV <3956> {ALL} touV <3588> {THE} paidaV <3816> {BOYS} touV <3588> {THAT [WERE]} en <1722> {IN} bhqleem <965> {BETHLEHEM} kai <2532> {AND} en <1722> {IN} pasin <3956> toiV <3588> {ALL} orioiV <3725> authV <846> {ITS BORDERS,} apo <575> {FROM} dietouV <1332> {TWO YEARS OLD} kai <2532> {AND} katwterw <2736> {UNDER,} kata <2596> {ACCORDING TO} ton <3588> {THE} cronon <5550> {TIME} on <3739> {WHICH HE HAD} hkribwsen <198> (5656) {ACCURATELY INQUIRED} para <3844> {FROM} twn <3588> {THE} magwn <3097> {MAGI.}
It is likely that Our Saviour was more than a month or two old at this point (probably 1 to 1 1/2 years) and it is also likely that the good professor does not know what he is talking about.
First, the "Three" is known to be a function of the number of gifts. No one has said that it was 3. The professor did not say that it was 3.
2nd, even if Jesus had just been born, it would still be past tense. Little child can be interpreted infant, especially when dealing with a male child. At one point were told that Jesus took the paidion "in his arms." That suggests an infant and not a toddler in my mind.
3rd, assuming that Joseph was not a total jerk, he probably started looking for a suitable place to stay the very next day. We mustn't forget that Mary's cousin Elizabeth was married to Zechariah who served in Jerusalem and probably had access to a house. I would expect that if my wife and new child were in a cattle stall, that I'd hit the streets early the next day to find better housing.
4th, there's no mention of the wise men attending the birth by the professor.....unless I missed something, of course.
The problem is.....I don't read Greek, so I need an interlinear to show me the difference between brefo, newborn baby as also used in Acts 7:19 and 1 Peter 2:2.....and paidon a little child as used in Matthew 18:3;19:13 and 19:14.
First, the "Three" is known to be a function of the number of gifts. No one has said that it was 3. The professor did not say that it was 3.
I threw in the three because that is what is most commonly quoted....incorrectly.
2nd, even if Jesus had just been born, it would still be past tense. Little child can be interpreted infant, especially when dealing with a male child. At one point were told that Jesus took the paidion "in his arms." That suggests an infant and not a toddler in my mind.
Now....I've taken my wife in my arms before calling her brefo....but never paidon!
3rd, assuming that Joseph was not a total jerk, he probably started looking for a suitable place to stay the very next day. We mustn't forget that Mary's cousin Elizabeth was married to Zechariah who served in Jerusalem and probably had access to a house. I would expect that if my wife and new child were in a cattle stall, that I'd hit the streets early the next day to find better housing.
Well....we're not sure that Elizabeth lived in Bethlehem....only that she lived in the hill country of Judah [Luke 1:39]. Bethlehem, although, is downhill from Jerusalem. They were definitely still in Bethlehem and I agree with you, Joseph was probably not a jerk.
4th, there's no mention of the wise men attending the birth by the professor.....unless I missed something, of course.
You are correct....but most nativity scenes still show this to be the case and that was what I referred to.
I believe the professor is attempting to justify biblically, a winter/solstice timing for the birth of our Saviour. There is none.....and his arguments are foolish, but....such is mainstream Christianity. Just know what it is you are really celebrating.
"Reply: "Modern astronomy calculations confirm extraordinary celestial phenomena during this exact time period.""
Do you have any additional info on this, sir?
And.....of course, since I'm not a Greek scholar we must make corrections to "Paidon" (Paidion) and "Brefo" (Brephos). My interlinear tells me this is the preferred (Non Anglicized) spelling.
Sorry, PMax. All I have is the article link.
Perhaps you could find it on his seminary's website.
Dr. Kinneer was able to compile a 14-page article with more details about the summary replies to popularized Christmas myths (posted December 5). I thought you might be interested about this updated resource made available because so many people have been asking for more information for Bible studies, Sunday School, etc.
Here’s the link: http://www.rpts.edu/pres_news_article.asp?articleid=37.
Notice the first bolded paragraph with a link to where the paper is.
Grant Van Leuven
Student (in Dr. Kinneer's Greek class) and Director of Development and Communications
Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary
www.rpts.edu
That, of course, remains the issue. What celestial phenomena?
Thanks, Grant.
How'd you know we were interested in this?
I'll probably repost the entire article. Is that OK?
There's a not-so-subtle appeal to pride in just dismissing the whole body of the church as "foolish". The likelihood that God would personally guide you to the truth, while letting the rest of the world languish ... well, let's just say it's rather small.
Just know what it is you are really celebrating.
That would be the birth of the Messiah of Israel in Bethlehem of Judaea, as far as I'm concerned.
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