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To: annalex; P-Marlowe; 1000 silverlings; Quix; HarleyD; Gamecock; Forest Keeper; blue-duncan; xzins; ..
Necessary for salvation...As one example I gave baptism of children.

No where is Scriptures does it say that baptism is required before the Holy Spirit gives faith. Baptism is a sign and seal of the election of God and is a grace provided by the Holy Spirit. This is where the RC practice differs greatly from the Protestant understanding of infant baptism. To the RC, baptism is an actual removal of sin. To the Protestant, sin is not removed by baptism; instead it's a promise to us that our sin has been forgiven by God through Jesus Christ's work on the cross.

More narrowly, this passage does not say anything about the perfection of the laity at all, and it does not mention either perspicuity or self-sufficiency of the scripture outside of the Holy Tradition and the magisterial teaching.

Are we reading the same words?

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." -- 2 Timothy 3:16-17

In those verses there is no mention of "tradition" nor any "magisterial teaching." Only an assurance that we are to live by God's word in all things and that in doing so, we will more perfectly reflect the glory of God. As God wills.

We cannot serve two masters.

9,772 posted on 02/08/2007 11:44:40 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

In those verses there is no mention of "tradition" nor any "magisterial teaching." Only an assurance that we are to live by God's word in all things and that in doing so, we will more perfectly reflect the glory of God. As God wills.

We cannot serve two masters.

= = =

WELL PUT. and sooner or later it DOES come down to the TWO MASTERS ISSUE--even in Protesty congregations where people are over idolizing their leaders.


9,774 posted on 02/08/2007 11:50:19 AM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS WORTHY; GOD ALONE PAID THE PRICE; GOD ALONE IS ABLE)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; annalex; P-Marlowe
Paul wasn't especially interested in baptizing. That was a revealing statement on his part. If anyone should have been interested in baptism, IF it was salvific, it CERTAINLY would have been the Apostle Paul.

1Co 1:17 - For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

9,775 posted on 02/08/2007 11:51:45 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; P-Marlowe; 1000 silverlings; Quix; HarleyD; Gamecock; Forest Keeper; blue-duncan; ...
No where is Scriptures does it say that baptism is required before the Holy Spirit gives faith

And nowhere it says it is not desirable. This is one of these things we are not intructed in through the scripture.

Are we reading the same words? [ 2 Timothy 3:16-17]

Yes, we are. The passage is addressed to a Catholic bishop and described what is profitable for his perfection. It does not exclude other things, such as the Holy Tradition or magisterial teaching, which might be likewise profitable, and to which a reference is made in v. 14. It does, however, characterize the scripture he is talking about as "all that Timothy had known from his infancy", whioch to an alexandrine Jew means the entire Septuagint.

You should stick to Van Halen or whatever his name is, as the Scripture proves you wrong on every turn.

9,791 posted on 02/08/2007 2:56:47 PM PST by annalex
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