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To: Forest Keeper
The word in the text is "sheep". You took the liberty of interpreting that as the word "people"

There is every reason to believe that the term 'sheep' refers to people. Anyone who has read the Bible ought to know that. To the best of my knowledge, neither the Apostles nor Christ Himself had any real sheep.

Then Christ and the Apostles were obviously wrong because of course they all preached to non-believers

No, they preached only to the Jews, unless you are denying that Jews believed in God. Gentiles were by definition non-believers (and could include Jews and non-Jews, but around the 1st century AD the term mainly applied to pagan non-Jews).

Kosta: He did. He sent them to preach to the 12 tribes/clans/phule of Israel (descendants of Jacob).

FK: If that was true, then God couldn't possibly love all men, as Orthodoxy holds. Your verses would also make Paul a false Apostle

Let's leave Orthodoxy alone for now and concentrate on what took place:

Not only does Christ say to ALL the Apostles not to go to the Gentiles, but he calls the 12 tribes the lost SHEEP. He clearly distinguishes the Torah-worshipping Samaritans (Semitic, but non-Jewish tribe) as not being the "lost sheep." (so much for MY "liberty" to interpret sheep as people!)

So, not only did Christ NEVER command His Apostles to preach to the Gentiles, not even Semitic, Torah-worshipping Samaritans, but one must seriously question WHY would He send ALL of His disciples on a mission He knew would fail?

As for +Paul, well...like I said, the Church was dying in Israel and +Paul was charged to save it even if He preached 'his gospel' in places Christ never commissioned any of His Apostles.

9,326 posted on 02/06/2007 8:48:18 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Forest Keeper

Errata: the NEVER should be EVER.


9,332 posted on 02/06/2007 9:07:36 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
There is every reason to believe that the term 'sheep' refers to people. Anyone who has read the Bible ought to know that. To the best of my knowledge, neither the Apostles nor Christ Himself had any real sheep.

Yes, it refers to the concept of people. I was saying that many words could be used to mean people other than "people". You chose that one, and then translated it to your liking. I didn't think it was proper to translate a concept into specific word(s), and then translate those word(s), even if they don't actually appear in the Bible.

Let's leave Orthodoxy alone for now and concentrate on what took place:

"These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: "Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." [Matthew 10:5-6]

Not only does Christ say to ALL the Apostles not to go to the Gentiles, but he calls the 12 tribes the lost SHEEP.

This was obviously not Christ's ultimate command to the Apostles. This was His first command on this. This was one mission. Why would Christ Himself preach to Samaritans, but not want the Apostles to ultimately do so? That would make no sense and be a waste of His time. Further, why did Christ not use the same type of command in Matt. 28? There, He was clearly expanding the mission field. Again, if you really believe that Christ did not want them to preach to Gentiles, then the only way you are saved is because Paul DISOBEYED Christ. If that was true, then you should venerate Paul twice as much as you venerate Mary! :) Yet, among Apostolics, Paul takes the worst beating.

Of course there were lost sheep among the Jews. There always have been. There were also lost sheep among the gentiles.

So, not only did Christ EVER command His Apostles to preach to the Gentiles, not even Semitic, Torah-worshipping Samaritans, but one must seriously question WHY would He send ALL of His disciples on a mission He knew would fail?

I made your correction to "EVER", but I actually think the original "NEVER" fits more in line with what I think you are saying. With "EVER" you are saying that Christ DID command the Apostles to preach to the Gentiles.

Who says that the mission was a failure? Was it a failure by your standards? Do we know what Christ expected? Perhaps the results of the mission were exactly as Christ intended, thus LEADING to opening up Christianity to all nations of the earth. That makes more sense to me.

10,149 posted on 02/12/2007 2:41:26 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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