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To: wmfights
"In all other cases the LORD either returns or uses angels. I think these images that people are praying to are not from GOD, but are being used to mislead people and come from the great deceiver, Satan."

One of the greatest of spiritual gifts, or so the Desert Fathers believed, is "discernment", whereby one can tell a delusion from the Evil One from something holy. Orthodoxy, far more so than Western Christianity, is aware of demons. Monks and holy people speak of them and warn against them all the time to this day. I've heard the howling of demons myself, several times, most often outside the walls of monasteries in Greece. I'll wager you yourself have had very real, tangible experiences with them. Ever been at church listening to a sermon or praying when out of nowhere you start thinking about the young lady three pews away in a less than holy way? Those thoughts, the Fathers tell us, come from the "logismoi", little, troublesome demons who don't have much power, but whose hatred of holy things is as great as Satan's own. And there are extremely powerful demons, some of whom can destroy even very holy people. We Orthodox are constantly reminded of the dangers of demons as Orthodox people have been for 2000 years. Here's a good example of what I am talking about and of the importance of discernment from +John Cassian who lived and wrote in the 4th century: "A recent example of the kind that I promised you will show the force of that description proclaimed of old by the blessed Anthony and by the other fathers. Think of what you recently saw happening before your very eyes. Remember the old man Hero who was cast down from the heights to the lowest depths because of a diabolical illusion. I remember how he remained fifty years in this desert, keeping to the rigors of abstinence with a severity that was outstanding, loving the secrecy of the solitary life with a fervor marvelously greater than that of any one else dwelling here. After such toil how and why could he have been fooled by the deceiver? How could he have gone down into so great a ruin that all of us here in the desert were stricken with pain and grief? Surely the reason for it was that he had too little of the virtue of discernment and that he preferred to be guided by his own ideas rather than to bow to the advice and conferences of his brethren and to the rules laid down by our predecessors. He practiced fasting so rigorously and so relentlessly, he was so given to the loneliness and secrecy of his cell, that even the special respect due to the Easter day could not persuade him to join the brethren in their meal. He was the only one who could not come together with all his brethren assembled in church for the feast, and the reason for this was that by taking the tiniest share of the vegetables he might give the impression of having relaxed from what he had chosen to do. This presumptuousness led to his being fooled. He showed the utmost veneration for the angel of Satan, welcoming him as if he were actually an angel of light. Yielding totally to his bondage he threw himself headlong into a well, whose depths no eye could penetrate. He did so trusting completely in the assurance of the angel who had guaranteed that on account of the merit of his virtues and of his works he could never come to any harm. To experience his undoubted freedom from danger the deluded man threw himself in the darkness of night into this well. He would know at first hand the great merit of his own virtue when he emerged unscathed. He was pulled out half-dead by his brothers, who had to struggle very hard at it. He would die two days later. Worse, he was to cling firmly to his illusion, and the very experience of dying could not persuade him that he had been the sport of devilish skill. Those who pitied him his leaving had the greatest difficulty in obtaining the agreement of abbot Paphnutius that for the sake of the merit won by his very hard work and by the many years endured by him in the desert he should not be classed among the suicides and hence, be deemed unworthy of the remembrance and prayers offered for the dead."
930 posted on 12/09/2006 10:27:59 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis
One of the greatest of spiritual gifts, or so the Desert Fathers believed, is "discernment", whereby one can tell a delusion from the Evil One from something holy. Orthodoxy, far more so than Western Christianity, is aware of demons.

Amen, brother!

I believe the spiritual danger increased after the Crucifixion because the evil one knows he's running out of time and has failed. Also, I think a great many Christians don't fully understand the significance of a bodily resurrection. In the Hellenistic culture of the Roman Empire spirits appeared all the time, but they were just that spirits. I see no reason to believe they've stopped and as you believe they have attempted to attack me on numerous occasions, just as you gave the example of with the distraction while in church.

I think your right about discernment, but I also believe I am right that the LORD only sent humans to Earth once. Thus, the discernment we need for this is provided in what we all should be striving to study, Scripture.

932 posted on 12/09/2006 10:43:35 AM PST by wmfights (Romans 8:37-39)
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