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Peter was talking about his audience being able to be sure for themselves that they were saved

You are saying that man elects himself, and then God just writes down the names outside of time ... a mockery of any rational concept of predestination and relegates God to the role of stenographer

But man would not be able to "elect himself" were it not for the divine grace. Where is the mockery?

By Catholic interpretation, there is no lasting promise here [John 10:27-29] at all, despite what the plain text says

Yes, we take it literally. There is a lasting promise, but it does not say that the believer himself cannot leave. "Make your election secure", the scripture urges. We take that literally too.

FK: "Peter was talking about his audience being able to be sure for themselves that they were saved."

So you, as a Catholic, are a proponent of just going with the straight text? Very unexpected, but interesting. :) I'll have to remember that. In any event, what Peter says is correct regardless. His "if-then" presentation is true because without works the claimed faith is false. Works will always accompany faith, so without works there is no faith. Looking at it this way does appear to rob the passage of much of its significance (because it appears to state the obvious) but it nonetheless passes the test.

But man would not be able to "elect himself" were it not for the divine grace. Where is the mockery?

The mockery can be in different places depending on what you mean by divine grace. If you mean that God graces all equally and only the smart ones come to Him on their own, then predestination and election have no meaning whatsoever. If, however, you believe that God gives saving grace only to His elect, but bases His decision solely on His looking through His crystal ball to see who "would" have accepted Him, then it is also a mockery because God is reduced to a stenographer. God is not sovereign, meaning He does not care which of His creation become His children. Man saves himself. God is a co-pilot rather than "THE" pilot, etc. To me, that is a mockery.

FK: "By Catholic interpretation, there is no lasting promise here [John 10:27-29] at all, despite what the plain text says."

Yes, we take it literally. There is a lasting promise, but it does not say that the believer himself cannot leave. "Make your election secure", the scripture urges. We take that literally too.

Wow! That didn't take long at all! :) To paraphrase an earlier quote in this very post:

"Your reading of John 10:27-29 does not agree with the text. If John wanted to say what you impute into it, he would have said it. But he did not ..."

You are imputing that if every single loophole under the sun is not specifically closed in the text (by name), then it means that every single loophole is automatically open. This is a frequent tactic I have seen from Catholics, but I have never understood how anyone could possible expect to be persuasive using it. Here, the plain text says:

John 10:28-29 : 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

You are saying to me that this does not say that the believer himself cannot leave. The text says "no one", so you are apparently asking me to consider that the believer is not a person. This is why you surprised me so much with your opening statement about following the plain text. That avenue is simply not available to the RCC in the vast majority of cases where there could be honest disagreement. To get the RCC view, Tradition must come in and change the meaning of the plain text.

Your reading of 2 Peter 1:5-10 does not agree with the text. If Peter wanted to say what you impute into it, he would have said it. But he did not: he lists a program of sanctification that, he says, will make the election secure.

Oh come now, Annalex, you know better than that!

Look at what Peter is talking about. Here are some of the verses which precede this:

" According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:"

Okay, lots of things in this portion of Scripture. First we have a gift that is given by a giver. The giver is God. Who by his divine power gave us certain things. That is significant. God is the giver. What does He give us? All things pertaining to life and godliness. So God all things. Who does He give them to? Small word, He gives them to "US." He doesn't give them to everyone. He gives them to "US." And, who is the "US" that Peter is referring to? The ones he is addressing: Verse 1:"them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" It's the saved by faith in the righteousness of God and our Savior Jesus Christ." In short, God's elect.

So, we have God giving His elect all things necessary to life and godliness. But that isn't all that He gives us. He gives them promises. And not just promises, but exceeding great and precious promises. It isn't just scratch my back and I'll scratch yours - but these promises are indicative of how God Himself has worked in their lives. Peter says: "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." These promises help us to commune with and experience God's nature in ways that the world can not but there is another little nugget here - it says we have escaped the world's corruption already. It is not that we are escaping it. We've already escaped it. How? Through the power of God. By His grace we escaped. Done deal. We aren't subjected to the world's corruption. We should have peace, right? Well... we should but don't always. Peter continues.

Peter says, already having escaped the worlds corrutpion through the power of God by faith and having received the promises of God add to your faith these things. Virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, kindness, charity. Sound familiar? It should. Galatians 5: 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Peter and Paul are both speaking of the fruit of the Spirit in one's life. We don't work these things up. The workmanship of God in our lives brings them about naturally. They are the Spirit's fruit. Not ours. And what does Peter say then?

"For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."

What is he talking about there? If these things be in you and abound in you, then you will be fruitful in the knowledge of our Lord. It isn't talking about a loss of salvation or lack of salvation. Rather, it is talking about a fruitfulness in one's life and growth as a Christian. Continuing..."But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins." If a true Christian doesn't have these things abounding in their lives, he may suddenly become forgetful that he was purged from His sin and can only see his current state. He isn't fruitful. He is blind in his knowledge of Christ. He isnt' growing. And very likely, he is feeling insecure because He has forgotten that He was already purged from sin. But, let's wrap the verse up...Wherefore the rather, brethren, [those who are of the elect] give diligence [1) to hasten, make haste2) to exert one's self, endeavour, give diligence] to make your calling and election sure[translation:unshaken]: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall[translation: stumble (in your understanding of what Christ has done for you)].

In summary, Peter's verses are not speaking of how one can make their salvation sure by doing good works. The subjects are already those who have already escaped the corruption of the world, been given the promises of God through faith, and have had their sins purged. Rather, he is speaking to those who may have some doubts because the fruit of the Spirit isn't evident in their lives as it should be. They have forgotten, perhaps. But, he is saying "make sure." That's all. Make sure that you are Christ's. And to you that have doubts, but do see these things evident in your lives and abundant, you don't need to worry because they are the Fruits of the Spirit in your lives, indicating that You are His.