When God created everything, He made it perfect. Now you are telling me that in order for his perfect plan to play itself out perfectly, God needed to introduce imperfection?
Better yet, professional religious rationalizers are telling me that God actually allowed it, get this — for the greater good!
Now, what can be greater good than God's perfect creation? Is the tragedy of Lucifer's pride necessary to make God's perfect creation a "greater good?" or is human disobedience, preordained by God, a mark of perfection?
Is God dying on the Cross to free us from the bondage of death we bondage pf death we brought on ourselves a necessity even god has to submit to in order for us to return to the very pristine state of creation we were in to begin with?
Kosta: Did Lucifer really have a "free choice" in his "rebellion" or was it something that, as FK says, God said must happen?
FK: In all honesty, I don't know how to answer that. I don't know how grace works with angels. All I can say is that Lucifer's fall was just as predestined as man's. No surprises to God, and God always gets what He wants
So then God wanted a sinful man. He gave man a pristine home and then trapped him and threw him out?!
As for grace and angelic creatures, there is no redemption for the fallen angels. Their sins are higher because they are not temptations of the flesh but of envy and pride.
Yet the Bible tells us that God prepared hell for satan and his angels. So, if all this was predestined, God is not only the God of life but of death as well.
That's not Christianity, FK.
When God created everything, He made it perfect. Now you are telling me that in order for his perfect plan to play itself out perfectly, God needed to introduce imperfection?
Well sure, from a certain POV. As strange as it sounds, in this case "perfect" is really a relative term. At one time lucifer was "perfect" in that he was created without sin. However, he was not created without the potential to sin. So in a relative sense then, he was less than "perfect". However, again, we define perfection by whatever God does. Therefore God does not introduce "imperfection" in this sense. If a thing that God does is in furtherance of His plan, then it is by definition "perfect". Isn't that simple? :)
Better yet, professional religious rationalizers are telling me that God actually allowed it, get this — for the greater good!
Yes, it was for the greater good. :) The greater good is defined by whatever God wants. God always gets what He wants. So, God allowing lucifer to do his thing was what God wanted, and it was for the greater good. For anyone who believes that the stories in the Bible actually happened, the story of Job says it all. Did satan overpower God? Of course not. Did God allow what satan did for a reason other than the greater good? I don't see how.
Is the tragedy of Lucifer's pride necessary to make God's perfect creation a "greater good?" or is human disobedience, preordained by God, a mark of perfection?
Yes to both, since God ordained both. "Perfection" is a relative term in how we use it.
Is God dying on the Cross to free us from the bondage of death we brought on ourselves a necessity even [G]od has to submit to in order for us to return to the very pristine state of creation we were in to begin with?
God makes all the rules, so I wouldn't put it in terms of God "submitting" to anything. But yes, Christ on the cross was necessary for God to get what He wanted (salvation of some), given the way He decided to order the universe. God cannot cheat His own nature. Sin demands payment per God's own rules. Christ on the cross was the only payment available to comply with God's rules, so that God could get what He wanted.
So then God wanted a sinful man. He gave man a pristine home and then trapped him and threw him out?!
In a manner of speaking, yes. :) Whatever thing is harder than diamonds, that's what God's plan was written into from the beginning. God's plan included a "perfect" Garden, but one which upon He would allow trespassers. It included a "perfect" couple, but who were both capable of sinning, by design. It also included His justice, which demanded that they be tossed out because of their sin. God created them knowing exactly when they would sin and they did. Tossing them out was exactly according to plan.
As for grace and angelic creatures, there is no redemption for the fallen angels. Their sins are higher because they are not temptations of the flesh but of envy and pride. Yet the Bible tells us that God prepared hell for satan and his angels. So, if all this was predestined, God is not only the God of life but of death as well. That's not Christianity, FK.
I fully agree that for satan and his brood, there is no redemption. However, I am not sure how you jump from predestination (of everything) to God being the God of death. (I don't even know what "God of death" means.) What did omniscient God know when He built hell? He knew that evil men would wind up there, right? So, verses like Matt. 25:41 don't speak to all the uses of hell we are told about. The FIRST use was for satan and friends, not the ONLY use. The Bible also tells us that hell would later be used for evil men. Remember, after God got all the proper zoning permits, etc., hell went through a renovation project: :)
Isa 5:14 : 14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it. KJV