Well such became apparent when reading Annalex's post.
We look at Scripture through completely different lenses. I try to look at Scripture from the context of Scripture itself. If James says we are justified by works and Paul says we are justified by faith, I look at the testimony of the rest of Scripture and try to see how those two thoughts are reconciled. Only on very very very rare occasion is there something that I just have to say "I don't know" about, because I believe the testimony of Scripture is reconcilable.
What I have witnessed on this thread is that we have a heavy reliance on Paul and interpret James by Paul and the other letters in Scripture. We believe when the Spirit inspired Paul to say that salvation is by grace through faith and not of works that this included ALL works. We also believe that a true Christian WILL work and if works are absent then that is often indicative that there is a big problem with one's faith being real.
When I hear differentiations such as when Paul was speaking of those kinds of works (i.e., works of the law or social works) verses the other kinds of works, I bristle. Scripture does not make a distinction. There was the law that is in nature that God has revealed to man such as that in Romans 1, and there was the written law with all of its rituals and ceremonies and "Stuff to do" in order to be acceptable. One is unclean if they do this or don't do that. The priest needs to make a special atonement for this or that. If a person is unclean, by going outside of the camp for a while they could get over their uncleanness and be reconciled to the society. And in all of these rules and regulations which people tried to keep in order to get God to accept, when really the only thing that could make them accepted was Christ Himself and Him alone. Roman Catholicism mirrors the old Judaic legal system. Jesus kinda kick-starts the salvation process but then it is up to us to do the right things in order to merit heaven. Such is not Scriptural. Rather, when I look at the Scriptures three things are apparent. 1)Hebrews 7:19
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.and 2) 1 John 5:4.. whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith; and, 3)finally we are reliant upon Jesus who is that .. author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
God wrote our live's story. He chose us to salvation and specifically determined that we would be His workmanship, His masterpience, ordained to do good works. But He Himself authored it all - and look what else it says - He Himself is the finisher of our faith. Given to Christ by God the Father, we can rest assured that our salvation rests in Him alone. And of all the Father gives Him, He will lose nothing.
As the Holy Spirit illumines Scripture, these truths become so clear. Sadly, formulations and false teachings cloud the plain text on the page so that salvation is no longer a free gift from God to His children but is a reward to be gained if one takes all the right steps and does all of the right things. If one doesn't, then there is always Purgatory - which is another issue altogether.
Amen!
Pondering the role of works I started thinking can you work to have FAITH? I think you can study, to learn and believe but that is not Faith.
Faith for me is just blindly trusting JESUS. I think you either have it or you don't.
I respect that, and I did the same. In our discussion of works, I did not refer to anything outside of scripture, -- not to Tradition, or patristics, or personal opinions. I invited you to look at the context of Protestants prooftexts, and pointed it out. I then offered my prooftexts, that were long passages pointed to the specific issue of works, not isolated quotes.
we have a heavy reliance on Paul and interpret James by Paul and the other letters in Scripture. We believe when the Spirit inspired Paul to say that salvation is by grace through faith and not of works that this included ALL works.
St. Paul did not say "ALL" works. It is your duty as a student of scripture to (1) see what St. Paul (or St. James) is actually saying, to whom and why and (2) not pick one part of the scripture as more inspired than any other part.
When I hear differentiations such as when Paul was speaking of those kinds of works (i.e., works of the law or social works) verses the other kinds of works, I bristle. Scripture does not make a distinction.
Sure it does -- see my previous post to you. There are very clear distinctions between ceremonial works and socially visible works, on one hand, and Christian charity on the other.