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To: wmfights; xzins; Kolokotronis; annalex
Prior to his stepping on one too many toes, he was very critical of some Bishops, he was held in high enough esteem to teach at the Christian school in Alexandria and asked to preach at numerous churches

That's because Origen was a brilliant theologian. That doesn't mean he was right. His embrace of Gnosticism proves that satan can corrupt even the best minds.

Which is another reason why we should always defer back to Church, lest our own self-righteousness lead us into the place designed for satan and his angels, unless, of course, you think that the Church is enslaved by satan since the beginning.

The point I was making was as early as 200AD the idea of Mary's perpetual virginity was not accepted fact

There has never been a complete consensus by all the Father and doctors of the Church on all issues. It took them some 300 years to agree on the Christian Canon. The only consensus that ever existed was in proclamations of the Seven Ecumenical Councils.

Individual fathers wrote and said all sorts of things. Origen turned on the pope; so did St. Cyprian at one point, although he staunchly defended papacy. Some of St. Augustine's writings are vehemently rejected by the Eastern Orthodox ("Original Sin," "double predestination," "total depravity," the "filioque," etc). The Greeks and the Latins did not agree on the meaning and extent of the Petrine Ministry (and still don't). St. Gregory of Nyssa believed that eventually even those sent to hell would be saved.

These have been, as Kolokotronis correctly observed, "theologoumenna" (religious opinions) of individuals learned members of the Church. They were not dogmas (essential religious belief held by the Church). Everyone is allowed to make a hypothesis, but that is not automatically accepted as truth. Hypotheses cannot go against dogma. Other than that, they can be pretty wild, as long as the author does not challenge the established truth (i.e. such as Dual Nature of Christ, Holy Trinity, Resurrection, Scripture — the Word of God, etc.)

856 posted on 12/08/2006 12:48:41 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; wmfights; xzins; Kolokotronis
St. Gregory of Nyssa believed that eventually even those sent to hell would be saved

I wanted to post a collection of him and some others sometimes lumped up as origenists, as a hypothesis that what they really taught was not that, but purgatory: the eventual salvation of many, but not all, who now suffer for their sins. Maybe one slow day I will. I was reading Origen not long ago looking for the notion that Hell will be completely empty and did not find it.

863 posted on 12/08/2006 2:21:45 PM PST by annalex
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To: kosta50; wagglebee; bornacatholic; Kolokotronis; wmfights
Everyone is allowed to make a hypothesis

Here's a hypothesis, then. :>)

Mary in heaven would always tell us to venerate her Son instead of herself. We would expect this from a mother proud of her Son.

894 posted on 12/08/2006 8:26:47 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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