Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: annalex

There you go again. You must be from Utah. Only someone whose state fruit is the cherry would be so fond of picking them. Be careful though, they stain the hands.

But since you mentioned Scripture...I will let it answer you.

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost

Romans 3:27
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Romans 4:6
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Romans 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

# Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:
9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. (James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.)

11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Ephesians 2
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Hebrews 11:7
By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith

Titus 3:7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men

Ephesians 2:5
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Ephesians 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace

Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 5:15
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

#
# Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

#
# Acts 15:11
But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

#
# Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

AS TO THE JUDGMENT OF THE SAVED:

1 Corinthians 3
10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

This is at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

THE JUDGMENT OF THE LOST:

Revelation 20
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

(when were the names written??? Go back 3 chapters)
Revelation 17:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world...

Annalex, Scripture doesn't hurt. Scripture is precious. The rejection of Scripture hurts. Embracing of a false gospel hurts.

Salvation is by grace through faith and not of works. That is Scripture. Salvation will produce works. That's what James was speaking of. You have been shown the truth from Scripture. Reject it if you will, but you have been shown.


8,521 posted on 02/01/2007 8:08:47 PM PST by Blogger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8517 | View Replies ]


To: Blogger
cherry

Look. If you accuse me of cherrypicking quotes, kindly show where my quotes are out of context. I did the same with yours. I maintain that Matthew 25, Romans 2 and James 2 describe certain works as salvific and do so in context. I also showed why the quotes you gave so far either do not say what you pretend they say, or do not contradict the Catholic doctrine in their context.

You now repeated several of your previous prooftexts and I will refer to my previous post for their treatment, and I will explain the rest.

***

Galatians 2:16, Romans 4:2, Romans 3:27, 2 Timothy 1:9, 2 Timothy 3:16f, Titus 1:16, John 15:16, Matthew 7:14f were treated in 8216. They are either referring to works of law, or works of social or any other temporal reward, or simply do not say anything about the issue on hand. You now offer a few additional prooftext on works, to which we turn.

Titus 3:5. The opening passage of Titus 3 is a good prooftext for salvific nature of works of love. Let us read the entire passage:

1 Admonish them to be subject to princes and powers, to obey at a word, to be ready to every good work. 2 To speak evil of no man, not to be litigious, but gentle: shewing all mildness towards all men. 3 For we ourselves also were some time unwise, incredulous, erring, slaves to divers desires and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. 4 But when the goodness and kindness of God our Saviour appeared: 5 Not by the works of justice, which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration, and renovation of the Holy Ghost; 6 Whom he hath poured forth upon us abundantly, through Jesus Christ our Saviour: 7 That, being justified by his grace, we may be heirs, according to hope of life everlasting. 8 It is a faithful saying: and these things I will have thee affirm constantly: that they, who believe in God, may be careful to excel in good works.

Indeed, Christ did not offer the sacrifice of the Cross because of any particular work of ours that by justice demanded it. We, however, having been baptized should excel in good works.

Romans 4:6. We covered Romans 3:29 - 4.5: "St. Paul says that Abraham had faith and was circumcised, while a Gentile would have faith but not Jewish law, and that would be reputed to justice." I have nothing to add to this previous explanation of mine. Verse 6 simply adds another example of "blessedness in uncircumcision". You did not add anything to your previous prooftext.

Romans 9:11 refers to children of Isaac elected before even their birth. This is an election issue, not a works of love issue, -- we certainly do not think that children are capable of works of love as we understand it, as it requires mature mind. We also have no dispute with the concept of divine election.

Romans 11:6 speaks of the election of the Hebrew remnant so the works there are works of Jewish law, and not salvific works of love. The broader inference can indeed be made from this verse, that works done outside of divine grace are not salvific. We agree.

Galatians 3:9f speaks of Abraham justified by faith and not by his circumcision. The reference is made explicitly not to works in general but to works of law. We agree, works of Jewish, or any other law are not salvific. Whether Abraham is justified by faith alone is answered in the negative by St. James in chapter 2 of his epistle.

Ephesians 2:8-9. I was wondering how you forgot that one the first time. The reference there is plain to works done in order to boast, and we of course agree that these, or any work done for temporal reward, are not salvific.

Romans 8:1 says nothing about works either way on its face. "Walk" of course, is used as a vague synonym for the effort of life, and in such is a prooftext for salvific works.

John 5:24 is a good example of what you might call cherry-picking. Wouild it have killed you to read the entire passage:

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and giveth life: so the Son also giveth life to whom he will. 22 For neither doth the Father judge any man, but hath given all judgment to the Son. 23 That all men may honour the Son, as they honour the Father. He who honoureth not the Son, honoureth not the Father, who hath sent him. 24 Amen, amen I say unto you, that he who heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath life everlasting; and cometh not into judgment, but is passed from death to life. 25 Amen, amen I say unto you, that the hour cometh, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself, so he hath given the Son also to have life in himself: 27 And he hath given him power to do judgment, because he is the Son of man. 28 Wonder not at this; for the hour cometh, wherein all that are in the graves shall hear the voice of the Son of God. 29 And they that have done good things, shall come forth unto the resurrection of life; but they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment.

"They that have done good things, shall come forth unto the resurrection of life; but they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment". Faith and doing good things are inextricably linked in our salvation, just what the Church has always taught.

John 3:18. Same thing: you pick one verse and pretend the rest of the passage is not there. Read through to verse 21 ad try not to scream this time.

Hebrews 11:7. This is great. Noah built an ark. He did not have faith and got saved. He took an axe and a chisel and got saved. This is an excellent point to make to the Sola Fide superstitionists.

Titus 3:7. You got Titus 3:5 in the beginning of the list. Twenty prooftexts down, you got around to verse 7. Do you ever just read the gospel, or do you go from quotebook to quotebook? Read verse 8, "be careful to excel in good works".

Titus 2:11 does simply say that salvation is from God and available to all men. Bad verse for a Calvinist to read. Put a tape over it or something.

Ephesians 2:5. Once again you have two quotebooks out of sync, as we already had Eph. 2:8, and the works are identified as works for reward in v. 9. Verse 5 merely says that we are saved by the grace of God. Yes.

Galatians 2:21. No, righteousness does not come by law. We are not saved by the works of law. This is the Catholic teaching.

Ephesians 1:7 Yes, redemption is through the blood of Christ and by His grace. This is the Catholic teaching.

Romans 3:24 and Romans 5:15 explain that grace is free and cannot be earned. We agree. It is by His grace that we do our salvific works, when we choose to do them. This is the Catholic teaching.

Acts 2:21, 5:11, and 16:31 al say the same thing, that one who believes in Christ shall be saved. It does not explain what that faith entails. All these are calls to conversion and baptism, -- it is not a detailed explanation of what a Christian life of faith is to be. It is too generic to conclude that works play no part in the walk of faith, and of course from plenty other scripture we know that they do. Besides, Acts 5:11 speaks of the dietetic restrictions being unnecessary, and they are works of the Hebrew law, just like circumcision.

Romans 5:9-10. Christ died for sinners, yes. This is the Catholic teaching. We must be going through your third quotebook, because we treated Romans 5 in the second quotebook. Why don't you sort your prooftexts by their appearance in the scripture? After all, this is the order in which the scripture was intended to be read.

Romans 10:9,13. The context is that not only the Jews are saved, but the road to salvation is open to all believers, Jew or Greek. What united us? The faith. St. Paul is not discoursing the role of works, like he did in Galatians, -- he is confirming that faith in Christ is what unites Christians.

1 Corinthians 1:18 does not say anything about who will be saved or why.

***

AS TO THE JUDGMENT OF THE SAVED

Nothing here supports your bizarre theory of works only mattering to the reprobates. 1 Corinthians 3 is a prooftext for purgatory, it describes how the works of the saved are purified before they reach final salvation in heaven. All whose works are tried in 1 Cor. 3 are heading to heaven; it does not explain how they got to be saved in the first place. It surely does explain how works matter, for if your house is all stubble, -- bad works -- there will be nothing left of you.

THE JUDGMENT OF THE LOST

That passage describes the judgement of the lost by their works. So, both judgements describe works. But what separates the two categories, the lost and the saved? Matthew 25 gives the answer: works of charity do.

8,684 posted on 02/02/2007 5:32:57 PM PST by annalex
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8521 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson