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To: Kolokotronis; kosta50; Blogger; The_Reader_David; Mad Dawg
FK: "I take it now that what I call salvation is more different from theosis than I had thought."

Is it what you call "sanctification"? ... What do you mean by ["saved"]? Is it a one time "You're saved" event? What happens after that and finally, you've mentioned the "sinner's prayer". All prayer here on earth is the prayer of sinners, but I suspect you mean something quite specific. Yes?

To the best of my knowledge, sanctification and theosis would be very similar in process, but potentially different in significance.

I could see myself using the word "saved" in a couple of different ways. Outside of time, I could relate it to predestination. Once God chose His elect before time, for all intents and purposes they were "saved" right then, in the sense that the only destination possible for them was Heaven.

The much more common sense of the word (for us) is during physical life. Throwing out exceptions for abortion victims, etc., all of us start out growing up on a one-way track to hell. (Isn't that sweet? :) We are all "lost". At any time during the life of an elect, God will grace that person with saving grace. The result of that grace will always be true faith, 100% of the time.

The result of that faith, and soon following, will be that the person will give himself over to Christ as Savior and Lord. At that one moment in time, we say that the person has become "saved". That is, from that moment forward, he is on a one-way track to Heaven. (God put us on a different one-way track.) This is why it is very important to distinguish whether one is referencing within time or outside of time. Outside of time, all the elect are predestined, but nobody knows it. Within time, once the elect are saved, they DO know it (or can know it).

So, in the human experience, salvation is a one-time event and is irrevocable in reality. The doctrine of POTS says that all of the works-related requirements (in very general terms) of the saved in scripture WILL be done by the saved, under the promises of God in the scriptures. God is the guarantor.

Now, the method of one giving over his life to Christ as Savior and Lord is almost always accomplished by some equivalent to the "sinner's prayer". There is no particular form that must be used, but a few ideas should be covered. Among them are the reckoning of one's sinfulness, the understanding of the need for Christ, and the true desire for Christ to come into the person's life as Lord. I have seen dozens of perfectly good versions of the prayer, and here is one:

"Dear Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner and need Your forgiveness. I believe that You died for my sins. I want to turn from my sins. I now invite You to come into my heart and life. I want to trust and follow You as Lord and Savior. In Jesus' name, Amen."

Of course, if this is faked (or is otherwise insincere), it doesn't count. Only God and the person can know which it is.

What we call sanctification begins at the moment of an effectual sinner's prayer. At this moment, the Holy Spirit indwells and God really gets to 'continuing the good work He began in us'. It is like theosis in that it is the rest-of-your-life-process of conforming oneself to the image of Christ. It is fully directed and controlled by the Holy Spirit. I see sanctification as a necessary, meaning it MUST and always happens, aspect of salvation. Sanctification among believers will vary in levels of development according to the will of the Spirit.

I hope this at least gets the ball rolling, and please ask for any follow-up. :)

8,257 posted on 01/31/2007 9:06:37 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; The_Reader_David; Mad Dawg
Outside of time, I could relate it to predestination. Once God chose His elect before time, for all intents and purposes they were "saved" right then, in the sense that the only destination possible for them was Heaven

So, in God's 'tool shop' He drew up a list of those He will make for heaven and those He will make for Hell? Lovely. Yet the Bible says that Hell was only for the devil and his angels (cf Mat. 25:41)

Anyway, what you are saying is that God saved the 'elect' before He even created them? Were they in any danger? I mean, to be saved means that you have to be in need of saving, FK. You'd have to be on the road to perdition before you were on the road to perdition if you know what I mean.

What were the elect saved from before they were in need of saving? How can you 'save' someone who is not even alive yet?

Why not just cut through the chase and call it the way it is in the Reformed theology: God decided to create manking destined to hell, but decided to 'save' some.

If this is Reformed theology, it has no biblical basis; God did not create man destined to hell in need of saving.

At any time during the life of an elect, God will grace that person with saving grace. The result of that grace will always be true faith, 100% of the time

Oy, vay! Not even the Apostles who walked with our Lord had true faith 100% of the time.

8,268 posted on 02/01/2007 3:16:57 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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