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To: jo kus
Salvifically we have already been justified, are being sanctified, and will be glorified before God. It's over. Done. Jesus did it. We are saved. Can't lose it. Won't lose it. Because the Father gave us to Christ and Christ will lose none of us.

Where the works of the Christian are judged is at the judgment seat of Christ. We aren't judged for our sins because Christ took our judgment and there is no more judgment for our sins. Christ's work was sufficient. Our works are judged for reward. Those things which were done with poor motivation will be burned up. Those things done for the glory of God will bring a reward. We will then take those rewards and give them to the only one deserving of them- Jesus Himself.

The lost are judged for their works salvifically. Their sin debt has not been paid. They reject Christ and must pay the debt themselves. There will be degrees of punishment in Hell (it will be better for that day for Sodom and Gomorrah than for one who caused these little ones to stumble) and works will play into that.

But Works do not save us and the full testimony of Paul is in total agreement with that. It is NOT OF WORKS lest any man should boast. Paul couldn't get any clearer than that yet in order to maintain the false notion that they can help save themselves Roman Catholics insist on ignoring that testimony and pushing fables.

Christ's salvation was a gift. If we do one thing to contribute to it it isn't a gift any more, it is recompense. That is not what Romans 4:4 says: "Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned according to grace, but according to debt."
Oh, a cherry picker too, and not a very careful one. That is a big fat rotten cherry you picked. Look what it says. I'll paraphrase in non-KJV English - Now, for him who works for his salvation, the reward he gets isn't because of grace but because God owes it to him. In other words, It isn't a gift, it is recompense. Romans 4:5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin...16Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, 17(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 18Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb: 20He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 23Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Also, who obeys the law fully? If you have offended in one point you are guilty of the whole.(James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.) We are all guilty of breaking God's law. God doesn't compromise. Guilty is the verdict. The penalty must be paid. Jesus paid it.

Paul's suffering for the church was not salvific towards them but so that they might hear the gospel and be saved. There were no righteous deeds that Paul did imputed to the account of the church for the church's salvation. Paul suffered as part of the inheritance of Christians who WILL suffer for the faith. Christ, through his body the church, does suffer persecution. Paul was fulfilling that lot in his life as a Christian. Paul was not suffering so that good works could be imputed to someone. None of our works, none of other peoples works, none of the Saints works contribute to declaring us righteous. Rather, the blood of Christ alone cleanses us from all sin and we are declared righteous because of Christ.

Roman Catholicism's view demotes the sacrifice of Christ and substitutes the same old same old (our works merit us something salvific) that all man-made religions foist upon the world. It does not understand the distance between the holiness of God and the righteousness of man. It sees something good in man when Scripture says there is NONE GOOD. It says our righteousness can be meritorious when Scripture says it is filthy rags. It has eyes to see but can not see that the true distance between man's works and God's holiness is the distance of infinity.

In Christ alone I glory. Catholics glory in Jesus, Mary, the Saints, the Popes, the Priests, the Church Fathers, Aunt Mary Elizabeth, and the self. It is another gospel, Jo Kus. Another gospel altogether.
8,253 posted on 01/31/2007 8:45:42 PM PST by Blogger
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To: Blogger
Salvifically we have already been justified, are being sanctified, and will be glorified before God. It's over. Done. Jesus did it. We are saved. Can't lose it. Won't lose it. Because the Father gave us to Christ and Christ will lose none of us

If I am already justified, then it really doesn't matter what I think right now about the whole thing, now, does it? Thus, if I had your point of view, sanctification serves no purpose, since I will instantly be beamed into heaven, no matter what I subsequently do. What exactly is the purpose of sanctification in your theology? There is NO PARTIAL or BARELY being saved in "faith alone" theology. Christ covers ALL with His righteousness (according to you). Thus, sanctification on earth doesn't matter... As long as I ONCE believed.

I don't know what book you've been reading, but it isn't the Christian Bible if you believe that our subsequent actions do not count towards salvation. I could quote from almost EVERY NT book something that contradicts that idea.

The rest, I won't bother addressing - the first paragraph was enough for me.

Regards

8,279 posted on 02/01/2007 7:04:51 AM PST by jo kus (Humility is present when one debases oneself without being obliged to do so- St.Chrysostom; Phil 2:8)
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