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To: D-fendr; klossg
Can a mental or intellectual activity ever be a "work"?

It has been stated more than once by RC posters that your justification is not dependent on works. Are you stating this, or are you saying that your justification is contingent on works and that unless you continue throughout your life doing works you will lose your salvation. Please answer this and then we can get into parsing a definition of works.

8,222 posted on 01/31/2007 5:20:36 PM PST by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
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To: wmfights

Personally I don't separate faith and works - as I define works. I don't think they can be separated. But that's me.

I'm in over my head in the theology of justification particularly as its developed in Protestantism. I'm just trying to find a real and usable definition of "works" as in "saved by works" that's the big no-no. How do you differentiate it from other non-works activity, mental or physical.

If I try to come up with a differentiator, I'd say: Any activity done for the purpose our own personal reward, in an attempt to control God. Or something like that.

I don't think there's debate over the OT "works of law" criteria. The question of "works" as used in this topic is a larger category, I think?

So that's what I'm asking. Or trying to.


8,229 posted on 01/31/2007 6:03:08 PM PST by D-fendr
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To: wmfights; D-fendr
Are you stating this, or are you saying that your justification is contingent on works and that unless you continue throughout your life doing works you will lose your salvation.

By justification do you mean my worthiness of being a child of God in the strict sense that I am really not worthy regardless of all of the good I do, because after all it is a gift from God?

If that be the case, then my works do not mean a thing and cannot make me worthy of being a child of God in any way. So I would say anything I do does not justify me. Only Christ. Any Catholic properly taught would agree with me.

On the other-hand, if you are asking me if I can commit a mortal sin, like kill 10,000 children, and get to heaven because I still believe Christ forgives me and I could care less about the 10,000 lives I destroyed. Then my actions just turned my belief into a shadow - a mental sting - a mind game against God's mercy and I would break my relationship with the Holy Spirit. No longer would he indwell in me. I would reject God by my actions and false sense of infinite mercy. I would reject God's love and expect Christ to judge me as a lost soul who rejected Him for the reality of being able to kill 10,000 children with no remorse.

I have tried to be as straight forward as possible with you and have responded to your question without holding anything back. My answer is dependent upon your clarification of justification. Which sense of Justification are you talking about in the question you asked? The first or the second or both? Please answer this and like you said then we can get into ...
8,281 posted on 02/01/2007 7:28:08 AM PST by klossg (GK - God is good!)
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