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To: Quester; annalex; Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; Dr. Eckleburg
And that faith is based upon Whom ... yourself ... or God ?

Are we humans or are we robots? God gave us the heart and the mind. We have a choice. He did not compel me.

(Also note that 'works' follow 'faith', and not the other way around)

Are you suggesting the Apostolic Church teaches otherwise?

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Is the above presumptuous to you ?

You know, if you think about it from the Reformed logic, why would +Paul even have bothered to write his Epistles to these churches if it was all a predetermined thing?

The reformed theology claims that true believers would never "fall off" and those who did were never believers to begin with. The reprobate were never among the 'elect,' and it was not their decision, but God's, so what business did +Paul have correcting that which God rejected?

And those who believed that they believed, but turned out to be reprobate, must have presumed that they have faith for an unspecified period of time. And some must, no doubt, continue presuming.

After all, it costs nothing to presume and the rewards may be worth it. Take out 'whatsin-it-for-me" the life-everlasting formula out of the Christian equation and see how many people profess faith in God for His glory alone.

8,121 posted on 01/30/2007 5:26:28 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
You know, if you think about it from the Reformed logic, why would +Paul even have bothered to write his Epistles to these churches if it was all a predetermined thing?

It was God's will that he (Paul) do so.

The preaching (and teaching) of the gospel is the way that God accomplishes His will regarding the salvation of men.

The reformed theology claims that true believers would never "fall off" and those who did were never believers to begin with. The reprobate were never among the 'elect,' and it was not their decision, but God's, so what business did +Paul have correcting that which God rejected?

It is also God's will that Christians grow in godliness. The teachings of scripture are also useful for facilitating this growth.
1 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
I don't find scriptural evidence that Paul attampts to correct the reprobate, but rather, ... that he warns the believer against reprobation.

And those who believed that they believed, but turned out to be reprobate, must have presumed that they have faith for an unspecified period of time. And some must, no doubt, continue presuming.

I believe that there are those ... though I believe that they are few ... that will taste the gifts of God ... and make a conscious decision to walk away from them. For such ... the reprobate ... there is no coming back.
Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;
seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
After all, it costs nothing to presume and the rewards may be worth it. Take out 'whatsin-it-for-me" the life-everlasting formula out of the Christian equation and see how many people profess faith in God for His glory alone.

Note that God did not offer a salvation devoid of benefit to us. It was not His will.

8,131 posted on 01/30/2007 7:09:57 PM PST by Quester
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