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To: D-fendr

The unsaved can not decide to do things with the motivation of glorifying the One that they deny. They may do good things. They have that "spark" of the likeness of God within them that brings about some good works. However, more often it is man doing what seems right in His eyes; which is most often selfish and self-serving. Man says to God, I don't need you. I will build my own tower to Heaven. God says to man, go for it, knowing that with each brick rather than growing closer to Heaven they are sinking deeper to Hell.

So, as far as your comment that my qualification makes free will meaningless, I would submit that it is as far as the definition most people try to give it and the qualification is what is true. We are both free but not free. Only the saved can choose to do good with a motivation that desires to be glorifying to God. Only the saved can follow after God. The lost will not ever turn towards God unless the Spirit draw them first. They are dead to the truth and bound by sin.

There is a difference between "can you" and "will you." In a conversation, I can say "can you accept what Scripture says?" Well, for most people being able to hear and understand the Word of God is not a problem. Physically, the can understand the words and know what it is saying. However, will they? Different issue. If they are not willing to even consider the truth of Scripture, they will not accept it as true. They can understand it. Nothing is holding them back. But they won't.

Nothing holds the lost back from salvation but themselves. Nothing brings the saved to salvation but the mercy and intervention of God.


8,052 posted on 01/29/2007 6:55:53 PM PST by Blogger
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To: Blogger
The unsaved can not decide to do things with the motivation of glorifying the One that they deny. They may do good things. They have that "spark" of the likeness of God within them that brings about some good works. However, more often..

When you speak absolutes - can not decide to do - you lose me. When you qualify - "spark" of the likeness of God - we agree.

To explain my view: Conscience is from God. Man's conscience is formed over time (from that "spark") and may forever be being formed. But even a beginningly formed conscience can be acted with. And conscience can develop along the way to and after a conversion experience - or salvation in your view.

So our differences in this regard at least are of time and progress. Sometimes you seem to me to be saying it's an on/off switch both for conscience and for salvation. Sometimes you do not seem to be saying so.

And if we were to throw in saved at birth discussed prior, then we have arrived, I believe, at a fully determined view.

8,056 posted on 01/29/2007 8:10:30 PM PST by D-fendr
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