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To: D-fendr
" The First Church of Spunkets."

That is not a valid conclusion. You asked who is my teacher and I told you.

"God, as usually described transcends physics. Hence metaphysics."

The modern function of "transcend" is to remove a real object, or concept from rational evaluation. The word applied previously in speculations, with very little knowledge and understanding of reality. It was used to postulate and construct models of existence w/o knowing and understanding evidence provides.

Re: "In order to exist at all, time is required.

"True for finite, changing, material existence. Not true for infinite, non-material.

It is true for all things that are real. These are terms that were used, but never understood before. They are now. All things in any world have an underlying physics. There are no such things as "supernatural". The word material refers to the physics of this world. There is no such thing as non-material real objects. Even a thought depends on an underlying physics for it's existence.

"In theology, 'eternal' means "existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change."

There's 2 claims made here. The first is simply a claim. That claim consists of a proposition, that can be proved false, as I did. Time is a measure of existence. If there is no time, there is no measure, so "eternal" is meaningless and time = 0. Not subject to change could mean many things. It would be better to say, that God is persistent and consistent for all eternity.

7,991 posted on 01/29/2007 2:02:58 PM PST by spunkets
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To: spunkets

Oh where to begin.

Perhaps here: The underlying physics of God is physics. Creation. But the sum total of creation does not equal God. This is where your category errors come in.

Transcend has a very specific meaning. Learn it and we can discuss it.

"There is no such thing as non-material real objects. Even a thought depends on an underlying physics for it's existence."

Your problem here is reductionism. Thought requires a body and brain, but cannot be reduced to either. Else you end with absurdities like "True" is reducible to a biochemical event - and therefore there can be no objective reality.

"Time is a measure of existence." Not for God.

You may wish to develop a philosophy from your thinking, but you are still at least a level short of theology.

Theology attempts to explain why physics exists, it is metaphysics. You can't approach this perspective with your methods or requirements.


7,994 posted on 01/29/2007 2:13:31 PM PST by D-fendr
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To: spunkets; D-fendr
"It would be better to say, that God is persistent and consistent for all eternity."

No it wouldn't. "Ο ΩΝ" does not exist in any fashion we comprehend, being the source of existence. Indeed, given that "existence" is only something we can comprehend and is a created state, God does not "exist".

8,043 posted on 01/29/2007 6:12:24 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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