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To: annalex; Kolokotronis; Blogger; kosta50; Quester; Dr. Eckleburg
FK: "... ultimate destiny is decided from the foundation, etc. So, the Judgment concerning salvation is secure in my view."

It should not be: ... [2 Peter 1:10, Rom. 2:4-8].

Neither of these passages shutter my assurance, and both are fully in accordance with POTS.

The election before the foundation of the world is foreknown by God who foreknows your works.

Yes. Our difference is whether God elects according to His will or according to man's will.

As you are breathing and working [your salvation] is not secure at all.

That is your free will choice to believe. The knowledge of assurance is available to any believer in the scriptures. I do not think your disbelief will affect your salvation status, it just means that during life you will worry more than your equally-saved counterpart on my side. :)

Your faith should give you hope, not presumption.

It gives me both hope and presumption. "Hope" in the Bible does legitimately connote an expectation of the hope fulfilled, in many cases (elpis).

FK: "Peter is saying that as we do good works in love for Christ, that we may be sure of our salvation. Doing the good works is a confirmation, for our benefit, ..."

You can read it that way as long as we recognize that these works will not come automatically, but must be chosen by our free will, ...

We would say that all of these works come with free will since our salvation set us free to do good works. The difference is whether God granted the power to men to thwart His word or not. If God did grant the power, then sheep will be lost and some of the saved will not do works. If God did not grant the power, then no sheep are lost and all of the saved will do works. The Bible only has any value at all under the latter.

You can laugh all you want about how annulment is practiced, but prohibition of remarriage is an issue of plain scripture and not tradition ...

Yes, it absolutely is a matter of plain scripture, and both of our sides have suffered miserable results over the last few decades. My loud objection is to any Catholic who points his finger at Protestants and says: "Catholics don't get divorced to the level Protestants do". However one wants to parse it, that just doesn't hold water.

7,928 posted on 01/29/2007 7:59:23 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; Blogger; kosta50; Quester; Dr. Eckleburg
both are fully in accordance with POTS

St. Peter says, "make your election secure" and that is in accordance with the assertion that it is secure?

Our difference is whether God elects according to His will or according to man's will.

Nope. We teach that God elects based on his foreknowledge of man's free will choices.

It gives me both hope and presumption

The scripture does not teach presumption. It teaches against it, see the parable of a publican and a pharisee praying.

My loud objection is to any Catholic who points his finger at Protestants and says: "Catholics don't get divorced to the level Protestants do".

That wouldn't be me. The practices of American Catholics by and large shame the Catholic Church in America. What I do is compare the doctrine, not how well it is followed.

7,954 posted on 01/29/2007 10:44:50 AM PST by annalex
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