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To: kosta50

Actually, you sell old Ptolemy short.

The model of the earth at the center is simply choosing the frame of reference fixed on a terrestrial observer. It is neither true nor false in that light, but it is the coordinate system you need to, for instance, drive a terrestrial telescope to keep a planet in view.

The frame of reference fixed on the sun gives better coordinates for calculations of planetary motion in that the center of the sun is approximately (to very high accuracy) the center of mass of the solar system. Again it is neither true nor false, just a choice of coordinates.

If you want to drive a terrestrial telescope, you still have to convert from the Copernican coordinates to the Ptolemaic coordinates, the telescope has to follow those little epicycles, after all.


7,877 posted on 01/28/2007 5:58:45 PM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: The_Reader_David
Actually, you sell old Ptolemy short

Oh, I must disagree. Ptolemy's system still works! It works precisely because it is a working model. Working models appear "true" because they work. Our mind rejects a notion that something which is not true shall work.

Ptolemy's system, because it works with mathematical certainty, was a strong element is establishing the Old World Order. After all, we use scientific method to "prove" things, and the convincing factor is always a working model.

But Ptolemy's system works because it uses earth as reference and us as observers on earth. Ptolemy's system will not work in particular on Jupiter, but a Ptolemy-like system with new epicycles from a Jovian vista would work in principle.

In addition to being falsely used as a "proof" of a geocentric Old World Order, Ptolemy's example also tells us that science does not discover truth, but only makes "working models." They are neithr true nor false in an absolute sense. They only either work or don't work. :)

7,879 posted on 01/28/2007 7:17:56 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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