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To: Forest Keeper

"I would make a strong distinction in my mind between phrases like this and "Most Holy Theotokos, pray for our salvation". To me, the supplications appear to be immeasurably different. One asks for the action of prayer for salvation by God, and one asks for salvation itself, appearing that Mary could possibly have anything to do with saving us today."

Of course you would make such a distinction! You couldn't do otherwise. The veneration of Panagia is not for those who are not Latin, Oriental or Orthodox Christians. Once people have been fully converted to what we all believe is The Church, the love of the Panagia follows naturally. A very wise Greek Orthodox priest and marvelous pastor once explained the quoted refrain thusly, while advising that the Akathist is really no place for the heterodox for exactly the reasons your reaction demonstrates.

"The pious (Orthodox/Catholic) believer knows firsthand that Jesus is his Savior, but the drowning man does not cry out to the lifeguard, "Intercede for me!"


7,811 posted on 01/27/2007 7:34:46 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis
A very wise Greek Orthodox priest and marvelous pastor once explained the quoted refrain ["Most Holy Theotokos, save us!"] thusly, while advising that the Akathist is really no place for the heterodox for exactly the reasons your reaction demonstrates.

"The pious (Orthodox/Catholic) believer knows firsthand that Jesus is his Savior, but the drowning man does not cry out to the lifeguard, "Intercede for me!"

This quote actually puzzles me. Our side also says that we know firsthand that Christ is our savior. Further, we say the saving (within time) is already done for knowing members of the elect. We are the ones who claim confidence. It would seem that if any side would feel "free" to spread around the prayers, it would be ours. Yet, our faith says to never do this because only God is deserving of our prayers.

Without assurance, and since prayer and other deeds are part and parcel to your salvation/theosis, I would think you would be LESS likely to deviate your direct attention away from God and onto Mary and the Saints.

8,189 posted on 01/31/2007 1:08:18 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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