[Mad Dawg]

You are busily earning the Calvinist reputation for gloominess.

. There are reasons though for our objections that have been spread out over 7000 posts on this thread alone. You are aware of the reasons, and they don't include "we just want to be cosmic killjoys for all of the Catholics fun."

Oh my goodness. Somebody might misunderstand! We can't have Marian festivals or conferences because a condemned man might misunderstand? I hear the little ones saying "Harold be thy name," and we are worried about "Theotokos" confusing them while saying the Bible won't? Either way, it's just a demo that people need the Church (or some interpreter, as the Ethiopian Eunuch did: How can I unless someone show me?)

Wow do you ever NOT get the Calvinist, "Neo-Orthodox" side of the Episcopal Church! Minimal vestments, no clerical collars, like to be called Mister. YOU can tell the bishops (or could back when PECUSA worshipped God Most High, because of the absence of pointy hats. But yeah, I'll cop to some education and to being a dab smarter than my daughter thinks I am.

Did the guy you asked think that we think Mary antedates God or did he think somebody else might think we think that?

Sometime back I adduced the JW's as examples of what you can get with Sola Scriptura. THEN you said that they use a bad translation (stipulated - with knobs on) and that one needed to spend a LOT of time with Scripture to get what it was saying.

So the, "you don't have much time" argument seems dicey to me. We end up at a prudential counsel: Theotokos might confuse.

Would you hand the man at the elevator door a Bible? Neither would I say Theotokos to him. We'd BOTH say "Jesus died for your sins, and if you confess with your lips and believe in your heart ...."

Why won't you take YES for an answer. I say God doesn't ask permission, He may do something LIKE asking for permission. You answer, as though it were a rebuttal,"God doesn't ask permission." A Rebuttal would have to include, HE doesn't do anything the remotest bit LIKE asking permission either," but I may have missed that (Boss lady thinks I'm straightening out my office. Back to rearranging the junk ....)I hear ominous footprints ....

[xzins]

Did the guy you asked think that we think Mary antedates God or did he think somebody else might think we think that?

Honestly, have you ever considered what we Protestants think when we hear the Co-Redemptrix talk, the Assumption Talk, and the Immaculate Conception Talk, and those who conflate veneration and worship?

THAT is one major reason why it's important to be clear.

There's good reason to think the RC means "Mother of the Godhead" when they say, "Mother of God."

That's why we try to help them clarify their language. :>)

[Blogger]

You are busily earning the Calvinist reputation for gloominess.
Well, the state of unregenerate mankind is not exactly something to jump and cheer about. My joy is present though. I glory and take joy in the Lord, my Savior. Outside of Him, the picture truly is gloomy.

Oh my goodness. Somebody might misunderstand! We can't have Marian festivals or conferences because a condemned man might misunderstand? I hear the little ones saying "Harold be thy name," and we are worried about "Theotokos" confusing them while saying the Bible won't? Either way, it's just a demo that people need the Church (or some interpreter, as the Ethiopian Eunuch did: How can I unless someone show me?)
What your church does gives all appearances of worshipping Mary. If you want to go ahead and give those appearances then have at it.

Wow do you ever NOT get the Calvinist, "Neo-Orthodox" side of the Episcopal Church! Minimal vestments, no clerical collars, like to be called Mister. YOU can tell the bishops (or could back when PECUSA worshipped God Most High, because of the absence of pointy hats. But yeah, I'll cop to some education and to being a dab smarter than my daughter thinks I am.
There are various strains of Catholicism, Episcopalianism, Baptist, Presbyterian, etc., My "getting" Episcopalian church should not be judged by the brief mention of it in the previous post.

Did the guy you asked think that we think Mary antedates God or did he think somebody else might think we think that?
My exact question to him, without any prodding whatsover, was "If you were to hear the term, Mary, Mother of God, what would it mean to you?" As I said, this not a theologian, just an average somewhat nominal Christian who goes to church regularly but avoids extending himself too much (can't get him into Sunday School for anything). His immediate response was "Well, I think it would mean that she was before God was." He and I do not discuss theology on any regular basis, so I do not believe that my influence was present in that answer.

Sometime back I adduced the JW's as examples of what you can get with Sola Scriptura. THEN you said that they use a bad translation (stipulated - with knobs on) and that one needed to spend a LOT of time with Scripture to get what it was saying.
I do not recall saying that one needed to spend A LOT of time with Scripture to understand its meaning. I recall saying that one needed to have the Holy Spirit in one's life to understand it. A baby Christian will understand that which he/she is supposed to understand. As that person spends more time in Scripture, more truths are revealed.

So the, "you don't have much time" argument seems dicey to me.
I don't understand why you would say this. If I were in the same situation outlined above on that elevator; 1)He would not see a Miraculous Medal on my lapel so Mary wouldn't be an issue. 2) He would probably see a Bible in my hand. If he inquired what is that book, I would say that it is God's message of forgiveness to mankind. In it we find that God so love the world that He gave His only Son, Jesus, God in the flesh, who died on a cross to pay the penalty for our sins; that whoever trusts in Him for forgiveness of his/her sins will be forgiven and will live with Him for all eternity. Would you like to trust in Jesus?

Why won't you take YES for an answer. I say God doesn't ask permission, He may do something LIKE asking for permission. Because it is not scriptural. God states the facts, he doesn't ask permission. He says, factually, Look I'm standing here and knocking. If you hear me and open the door to me, I will commune with you. If I said to you, If you post to me, I will post to you as well. I'm not asking permission to post to you. I'm stating what will happen in the order of events. Again, God doesn't ask permission. He states what will occur. With Mary it wasn't even a do this and I'll do that. Rather, it was "This is what I'm about to do. Period." Her response was not "You have my permission." But basically "Amen! So be it!"