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To: Forest Keeper; blue-duncan
Man has no power to change God's plan.

Than you must believe that man's rebellion agianst God is not really a "rebellion," but something God determined must happen. It was then God's decision, right?

However, I'm not exactly sure how this relates to whether God demanded a price

A price for what? What did man do that God didn't want or allow him to do? Did man's rebellion change anything God did not choregraph from before all ages? Where is the crime?

This is where Protestant logic seems to break down. You speak of 'offense' and 'price' needed to 'redeem' man for something man had no power or ability to change.

It's like asking that you to pay a penalty for getting sick.

And what was God supposedly so 'angry' about? He didn't know that we would turn out to be a rotten bunch? Why was He 'offended?'

7,639 posted on 01/27/2007 5:40:22 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; Blogger
FK: "Man has no power to change God's plan."

Then you must believe that man's rebellion against God is not really a "rebellion," but something God determined must happen. It was then God's decision, right?

No, man's rebellion was a real rebellion, AND God determined it must happen. God could have prevented it in any number of ways, but did not. That says it was part of His plan. However, this doesn't relieve the participants from their culpability. God did not zap them with sin, forcing them to commit it. He left them by themselves, knowing what would happen.

A price for what? What did man do that God didn't want or allow him to do? Did man's rebellion change anything God did not choreograph from before all ages? Where is the crime?

Man did nothing God didn't allow him to do. So what? Is the only way for a price to be required if man managed to surprise God somehow? All of God's creation is His to do with as He pleases. He has chosen to allow all of us to commit crime. That is part of His plan. Where is His duty to prevent it? When He chose to allow crime, along with that came a demand for a price for that crime. That is, if any are to be saved. It's a package deal that God fully thought through before He instituted it. The argument you appear to be making is that under our view, God isn't being "fair". The last thing in the world I want from God is "fair".

It's like asking that you to pay a penalty for getting sick.

No, all sin is through free will choice. We are still responsible regardless of whether choosing not to sin was an option. God doesn't owe us that option. We follow our nature, unless it is changed by God.

And what was God supposedly so 'angry' about? He didn't know that we would turn out to be a rotten bunch? Why was He 'offended?'

I'm not sure if you are referring to something specific. If not, then sin in general is what makes God angry and offended. He has the power to eliminate sin, so as to never be angry, but He chose not to do that.

8,122 posted on 01/30/2007 5:59:28 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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