In all respects Mad Dawg. You don't see it. So far, Revelation 3 is the only scripture that has been brought up to imply that He does, and it doesn't contain a question at all.
and He doesn't get caught by surprise either. But from another aspect He does seem at least to engage in a dance where HE does this and then WE (by His grace) do THAT and so there is something very like asking permission.
Up until the last moment, I was with you. There is a tension. God is sovereign. Nothing happens without his knowledge and allowance (whether it is permissive or directive will is another theological issue that sometimes is best not to dwell on). So, he is never taken by surprise (which actually cool, since it also means we can never disappoint God since He knew what we were going to do anyway- another issue). Now, the dance you speak of is really a well orchestrated plan. I do not believe that a person can ultimately thwart God's plan. How much lee-way we have is really not articulated. We know that as far as God's plan for humanity, there really isn't a plan b. It's not like God watches to see what we will do. Hence, He doesn't ask permission. He gives directions. God is not toodling along and saying "OH NO!!!! Mad Dawg just screwed up my plan for humanity" He knows ever move we will ever make and it all works out towards His plan and glory, and if we are Christians, our good (even to the point that the best good for us is to be taken home). So, all that is to say, that there is this observational tension that we really can not understand as humans. But, there is nothing in us that God must rely upon in order to accomplish His plan. Rather, if we weren't His tools for accomplishing His will, the Rocks themselves would cry out.
Now, the idea of "Credit" for doing good. A couple of things. First, I'm going to turn your statement around to read, If they do something bad then there's plenty to blame, but its like nobody gets any "credit" for doing good [either]. For the first part, there is no "IF" there. We all do bad. We all deserve Hell. Period. Now the second, nobody gets any "credit". You're absolutely right there. Salvifically, any "righteousness" which we do is as filthy rags before God. They are nowhere near His holiness and are as filthy, stinky, dirty rags in comparison. Filthy rags deserve nothing but being burned in the fire. Nevertheless, as Christians God has set up a system of rewards (as well as stripping of reward) for those who do good works. The good works in no way save us. But, they are all a part of what God expects of us and designed us to be as His chosen vessels. As Ephesians 2:8-10 says " 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." In other words, our salvation rests in His grace by faith alone- exclusive of works. But, His salvation will absolutely produce good works because it was all a part of the reason that He saved us to begin with. He gives us the ability to do those good works, and graciously gives us rewards for those things we did with a motivation to please Him. I've said it before, I know we can not do anything to thwart God's plan for the ages at all. He will keep us from doing that. But as Christians, we are creatures whom He has given TRUE free will (unlike the will of the lost who willfully enslave themselves in the chains of sin and love it). We obey or we disobey. The lost only ultimately disobey. Their motivation is NEVER towards pleasing the one true God. Ours often is. Sometimes it isn't. Christian works with bad motives will be burnt up and we will have no reward to speak of. We will be in heaven, but saved "as by fire." Now, as the to the "Mother of God" comment, let me ask you this. Let's say you have been chosen to escort a prisoner on death row to the execution chamber. He is in his shackles and you are to walk beside him, get on an elevator, and then walk him to the chamber door to never see him again. This man is a notorious sinner, who was never exposed in any depth to Christianity and really doesn't even know who Jesus is. As you are travelling on the elevator alone with him, he looks down and sees a miraculous medal lapel pin on your jacket. All of this time, you have been burdened to try to share the gospel with him. Suddenly he turns to you and says "Who is the lady?" and nods towards your lapel. You have about 10 seconds before the elevator doors open. Honestly, will your answer be, "a)She is Mary, the Mother of God and Queen of Heaven and I love her" or b)"She is the mother of the Lord Jesus Christ who was God and came down as God to save those who were lost. Would you like His forgiveness?" Which would be your choice Mad Dawg?
It never occurred to me that saying "Mother of God" meant that Mary was the REAL god, and that Trinity stuff was just a parvenu. From the time I was 19 with no instruction I knoew that the "middle term" was "Jesus, who is God".
I don't think that anyone would say that the title means she is God. Rather, I think the confusion comes in with her preceding God. She didn't. The imprecise term "Mother of God" implies that she did.
The boss-lady and I sort of blend our Rosary with our daily and occasional intercessions, and there is no "hiccup" in going from "We pray to the Lord" "Lord hear our prayer" after one of us gives a whole telephone book full of the people we're praying for.
Do you not ever wonder if what you are doing with the Rosary is spoken of in Scripture when Jesus said "Matthew 6:7- But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."
"The Lord's Prayer" was not a prayer for us to repeat over and over and over and over again as a formula. It was a model of how we were supposed to pray. Remembering in our prayers to praise God (Hallowed be thy name), yield to His will (thy kingdom come, thy will be done), Make petition (give us this day), Ask forgiveness (And forgive us our trespasses) while releasing others from any debt owed to oneself (as we forgive those who have trespassed against us), ask for protection against Satan's ways (lead us not into temptation but deliver us from [the]evil[one]), and again into praise. It was the ideal prayer. It was a model. It wasn't a rote formula. The rosary is a formula. Say this and you will get protection from Mary against temptation. Say this and you will earn grace. This is not biblical, rather it was the instruction of an apparition of Mary which has grown to a normal ritual in Catholicism.
It's just a non-starter. The only people I KNOW of who have a beef with the term are people who came into the conversation not only with a beef against the Catholic Church but with a firm resolve NOT to believe that Church's account of itself without a (sometimes nasty) fight. It was never easy to think this possible misunderstanding was our problem or our fault and it's getting harder and harder.
The people who have a beef against the Catholic church have a beef against it because we believe its teachings are not biblical and its gospel is a different one than the one found in Scripture. I believe that there are Catholics who are saved in spite of the church's teachings. I believe there are Baptists who are lost in spite of my church's teaching. It isn't at a personal level that this judgment is made. Rather, it is at a top level of "is what is being said in harmony with Scripture?" If not, the "fervor" you see may not be nastiness but frustration because someone thinks you have missed it on the gospel. It is a show of love. Of course, this isn't always the case. Some folks just like to argue without really having any purpose in mind. As a matter of fact, many of us can basically be looking at these discussions with love but occasionally lapse into just being argumentative for arguments sake. Anyway, objection to the Catholic church isn't just a case of hatefulness and obstinancy.
You know there are some people on this thread who, if they got a notarized letter from God saying, "Surprise, the papists are right!" would take a VERY long time and much heartache to come around.
I would submit they would reject the letter because they would have tested the spirit with Scripture. God isn't a cheerleader for the papists. He is a cheerleader for his truth. Where the papists get it right, He is pleased. Where they don't, He is not. Ditto with the Protestants. God will not cheerlead things which run contrary to His word.
This is like what Rush says about Democrats advising Republicans how to be better Republicans. A lot of us have taken the objection seriously and looked at it from all sides. At this point after 7500 posts on this thread alone, it's going to take more than a sampling of one store -- a sampling which evidently didn't count crucifixes as images of Jesus (or note that nearly every rosary has an image of Our Lord which is usually larger than the image of our Lady) to get me to think that there is a plague of mother worship sweeping the land.
All I say to that Mad Dawg is...
