[xzins]

I agree that this line of teaching would be entirely unprofitable. I hope it is not some kind of settled dogma of the church, or whatever they call it.

[kosta50]

I agree that this line of teaching would be entirely unprofitable. I hope it is not some kind of settled dogma of the church, or whatever they call it

First, the only dogma of the Orthodox Church regarding Mary is that she is the Theotokos (One who bore God), the Mother of God.

Second, the Church does teach, proclaim and affirm that the belief in her Ever-Virginity is an unbroken belief held by the Church since the beginning.

"The Eastern Church has witnessed to the perpetual virginity of the Theotokos steadfastly for two thousand years and shows no sign of tiring. In the West, the idea was largely undisputed until late in the Reformation" [Gr. Archdioc. of America]

The Church reminds us, further that "it was the practice for devout Jews in the ancient world to refrain from sexual activity following any great manifestation of the Holy Spirit." (Ibid)

Regarding St. Jospeh, GOARCH says

"Surely his wife’s miraculous conception and birthgiving (confirmed by the angel in dream-visions) and the sight of God incarnate in the face of the child Christ would have been enough to convince him that his marriage was set apart from the norm. Within Mary’s very body had dwelt the second Person of the Trinity. If touching the ark of the covenant had cost Uzzah his life, and if even the scrolls containing the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets were venerated, certainly Joseph, man of God that he was, would neither have dared nor desired to approach Mary, the chosen of Israel, the throne of God, to request his “conjugal rights”!

The Lenten Liturgies are full of that ever-held belief

"For just as the bush was aflame but did not bum, so as a virgin you gave birth and virgin you remained."

"Who would not call you blessed, most holy Virgin? Who would not praise the painless birthgiving? For He who shone forth from the Father as only-begotten Son, the same now came forth from you, taking flesh in a manner beyond describing. Though God by nature, for our sakes He became man by nature, yet not split into a duality of persons, but revealed without confusion in two natures."

"O novel wonder and befitting God! * for the Lord himself has manifestly traversed * the gate of the Virgin, which was shut. * Raw God in His entry, * in His emergence He appeared as One bearing flesh, * the gate remaining shut notwithstanding. * She is unutterably God's Mother, and her we magnify." [Sunday Orthoros, III Mode]

"Lord, even as You came out of the sepulcher, though it was sealed shut, likewise You entered where Your Disciples were, the doors being shut also." [Sunday Orthodox, Plagal Mode of the 1st]

[P-Marlowe]

Here we have some very unscriptural and pagan teachings about Mary.

1) She was "immacualtely conceived" so the curse of Adam was not upon her.
2) She remained a "perpetual virgin".
3) She gave birth to Jesus by having him miraculously avoid going through the vaginal canal (like the rest of humanity).
4) Her hymen remained intact forever.
5) She lived an entirely sin free life.
6) She was better than all of us mere mortal because "Mary did what we can't do – love God with all her heart and mind and soul. There was no other devotion in her life, but God."
5) She was miraculously assumed into heaven.

Of course none of this can be found in scripture or in the teachings of the apostles. But it appears to me to be nothing short of worship. To many, Mary appears to be higher than Human and worthy of what appears to be "worship" (but those who worship her call it "veneration" in order to avoid the obvious scriptural prohibition to worship only God).

But quite frankly I don't see any essential or objective difference in their admiration for Mary and their admiration for Jesus. Since she was herself outside humanity inasmuch as she was born without sin (which would make her unique among all creatures) and lived a sinless life, which would make her equal to Christ (and in fact better than Christ since she was able to live that life without the benefit of being a member of the Trinity).

I now understand why Pius XII felt it necessary to proclaim ex-cathdra that Mary was assumed into heaven. If she were born without sin and did not herself sin, then she could not die. Hence since they have proclaimed the fact of her sinless birth and sinless life, how could they acknowledge that she was capable of dying?

I tell you I have learned a lot from this thread. I have learned how important it is to stick to scripture. The Church at Galatia fell into error quite quickly after Paul had left them alone. The Church at Rome was no more immune from falling into error than the church at Galatia. It appears that they have fallen into error. Only the supremacy of scripture can prevent a church from falling into the preaching of another gospel. Paul did not preach all this nonsense about Mary. None of this nonsense about mary can be found in scripture. It has all come about through tradition. And when tradition is given equal footing with scripture, there is no way to stop the errors from becoming doctrine and dogma.

/rant