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To: annalex

Wrong wrong wrong! Our sins were already judged. They are that which has condemned us. We are declared "Not guilty!" Why? Because of Christ. If we have no sin to our record, we are saved-period.

Micah 7:19: “He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea

# Ephesians 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace

# Colossians 1:14
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

# Colossians 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

1 John 2:12
I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

No mention of our works gaining our forgiveness.

John 3:18He that believeth on him is not condemned...

Do NOT call condemned that which Christ Jesus Himself does not condemn.


7,396 posted on 01/23/2007 7:22:16 PM PST by Blogger
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To: Blogger
Let us first note that we are no longer discussing the role of good works as defined in the scripture and as the Chruch teaches it according to the scripture, but rather we move to another counterscriptural Protestant fantasy, to wit:

Our sins were already judged.

From the divine perspective there is no "already" or "will be". What to us is future to Christ is eternal Now. This is why God knows his elect "from the foundation of the world". The time dynamics of salvation are, however, important to us, and this is why Christ gave us his Church in order to guide us through life. Let us see what the Church teaches.

The scene of universal judgement is described in Matthew 25.

31 ... when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. 32 And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. 34 Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

The future tense is used. The event is in our future, even though the Kingdom is prepared for the elect eternally.

The particular judgement occurs at the hour of our death. It is in our future by definition.

walk in the ways of thy heart, and in the sight of thy eyes: and know that for all these God will bring thee into judgment.

(Eccl. 11:9)

26 ...once at the end of ages, he hath appeared for the destruction of sin, by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this the judgment

(Heb. 9)

This day thou shalt be with me in Paradise

(Luke 23:43)

On the temporal plane both judgements lie in the future.

All sin has been redeemed (in the past), and for many it will be forgiven (in the future). The verses you quote explain that the redemption occurred in the past at the Paschal mystery of the Cross. They naturally do not mention any good works of men, because they did not produce the Sacrifice of Golgotha. Ephesians 1:7 and Collossians 1:14 do mention "forgiveness of sins" as a general outpouring of grace. They do not speak of any particular sin forgiven at the time of the Passion, let alone our present or future sins.

Colossians 2:13 does refer to indivvidual sin, but the context is baptism, whereupon, indeed, the past sins are forgiven. The passage does not speak of forgiveness of future sins, and quickly segues into warning against seduction (v. 18), and, typically for St. Paul conclude in exhortation of good works (faith not mentioned):

12 Put ye on therefore, as the elect of God, holy, and beloved, the bowels of mercy, benignity, humility, modesty, patience: 13 Bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if any have a complaint against another: even as the Lord hath forgiven you, so do you also. 14 But above all these things have charity, which is the bond of perfection ...

(Colossians 3)

1 John 2 begins with an exhortation to charity

4 He who saith that he knoweth him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But he that keepeth his word, in him in very deed the charity of God is perfected; and by this we know that we are in him.

He then singles out little children whose sins are forgiven, and continues to exhort young men and fathers to charity and obedience. It is not clear if St. John refers to specific sins of young children being forgiven, or uses the poetic juxtaposition of age categories and reasons he writes. It is however clear that the call is to obedience and charity, and therefore, good works.

Finally, John 3 speaks of the necessity of faith in v.16 and 18. But it also speaks of evil works in v 19, and of good works in v. 21. This is exactly what the Church teaches: that faith powers out good works and good works form out faith; the two are inseparable in truth, as they always go together in the Holy Scripture.

7,423 posted on 01/24/2007 10:35:26 AM PST by annalex
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