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To: kawaii
Do you trust Jewish hands at copying or the Apostles and Christ?

Those "Jewish hands" were our Christian forefathers. Of course I trust them.

And, just to be clear, the Apostles and Christ were all Jews.

7,317 posted on 01/23/2007 7:45:45 AM PST by HarleyD ("...even the one whom He will choose, He will bring near Himself." Num 16:5)
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To: HarleyD

The Jews who wrote the 8th century Maeorhetic text were HARDLY 'Christian Forefathers' they denied that Christ was the Messiah and they added vowels to the Hebrew Scriptures.

This was already AFTER the NEW COVENANT.


7,321 posted on 01/23/2007 8:08:35 AM PST by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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To: HarleyD

Noting that these Jews 'fixed' the Masoretic text 150 years AFTER Christ and no complete copies of said text have been found to be older than the 9th century.

"Fixing of the text

The earliest labors of the Masoretes included standardizing division of the text into books, sections, paragraphs, verses, and clauses (probably in the chronological order here enumerated); the fixing of the orthography, pronunciation, and cantillation; the introduction or final adoption of the square characters with the five final letters (comp. Numbers and Numerals); some textual changes to guard against blasphemy and the like (though these changes may pre-date the Masoretes - see Tikkune Soferim); the enumeration of letters, words, verses, etc., and the substitution of some words for others in public reading.
Since no additions were allowed to be made to the official text of the Bible, the early Masoretes adopted other expedients: e.g., they marked the various divisions by spacing, and gave indications of halakic and haggadic teachings by full or defective spelling, abnormal forms of letters, dots, and other signs. Marginal notes were permitted only in private copies, and the first mention of such notes is found in the case of R. Meïr (c. 100-150 CE)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoretic_text


7,322 posted on 01/23/2007 8:13:37 AM PST by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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To: HarleyD

Actually the question about trusting 'Jewish hands' is not about the Apostles or Christ, but about the compilers of the Masorete, the Hebrew text available before the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

The oldest extant copies of the Masorete date to about 1000 A.D. The content is based on a Babylonian text prefered by the Christ-denying rabbis who met at Jamnia in 90 A.D. to fix a canon for the Jews after the destruction of the Temple, preferred over the Palestinian text which had been translated into Greek beginning c. 250 B.C., to produce the Septuagint (for brevity LXX), the version of the Old Covenant Scriptures quoted throughout the New Testament by Christ and His Apostles. The Babylonian text was preferred because it contained readings at variance with the Old Covenant Scriptures used by the Christians. (Including most famously at one point in Isaiah a Hebrew word meaning 'young woman' where the Greek LXX had 'parthenos'=virgin.)

Luther and the other 'reformers' and protestants after them, including the translators commissioned by King James (Sixth of Scotland, First of England),
mistakenly believed the Masorete to be 'more genuine', or even the original text of the Scriptures, when in fact it was a redaction made by Christ-denying Jews after Our Lord's Incarnation, Saving Death, Glorious Resurrection and Ascension into Heaven.

The question is why do you trust a Hebrew text transmitted to us by those who deny Christ, rather than the Greek text translated before Christ's advent and used by the Church, Christ and the Holy Apostles included, from its founding?



7,405 posted on 01/23/2007 8:37:57 PM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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