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To: kosta50
Protestants agree with other (and with other christians) on far more than you think.

Bits and pieces.


Well ... you should know.

Rather than just make these general, rather judgemental statements ... why not offer some evidence of your positions.

As for 'other Christians' (like Catholic and Orthodox), we agree with mainline Protestants on the Holy trinity and Dual Nature of Christ. This is where out agreement ends. Including the Bible versions.

I think that Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants agree on all of the elements of the Apostles and Nicene Creeds.

That's a bit more than you give us credit for.

Christ's mission was never to reform the world, ... but rather, ... to save souls out of the world.

That's why His parting words were "Baptize all nations ..." from paganism into true faith. I would call that reforming the world. Since then, many have been saved by the Church, and many have been destroyed in the name of Christ.


In the vast majority, those who are drawn to the gospel (of all nations) have been given the opportunity to accept God's saving grace.

I think that you have to offer more evidence that Christ's mission was to reform the world.
John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

_________________________________________________________

Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

7,307 posted on 01/23/2007 5:25:45 AM PST by Quester
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To: Quester; kosta50

"I think that Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants agree on all of the elements of the Apostles and Nicene Creeds."

Really? To mention the insertion of the filioque clause in the West is, I suppose, too obvious, but how about the part concerning believing in "one, holy, catholic and apostolic church"? The Nicene Fathers who wrote that meant the Pre-Schism Church complete with its Divine Liturgies, Eucharistic theology and hierarchy from the Patriarchs on down. You don't believe in that at all.

Just the other night I came across several stories in the Spiritual Meadow by +John Moschos in which he speaks about other sorts of Christian monks and hierarchs (generally Monophysites or types of Nestorians. In each instance he tells of how these men came out of heresy and into the "catholic" church. Now this was written in the 7th century so it is somewhat later than the Councils of Nicea and Constantinople, but the idea that the "catholic" church meant the Pre-Schism Church which we see today in Orthodoxy and arguably the Latin Church goes back to before even the Council of Nicea.

As I understand it, and please correct me if I am wrong, Protestants believe in an "invisible" church which is quite different from what the drafters of The Creed were talking about.


7,309 posted on 01/23/2007 5:57:07 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Quester
I think that Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants agree on all of the elements of the Apostles and Nicene Creeds.

I guess you missed the doctrinal content of the Western schism, and thought it was all about the purported authority of the Popes of Rome. Do you say the filioque when you say the Nicene Creed? Careless Western habit, or do you actually believe that the Spirit proceeds from both the Father and Son?

I guess you've also missed a fair bit of this thread. There's been a fair bit of denial coming from protestant posters of the common understanding of Orthodox and Latin Christians of the "communion of the saints". We've been accused of 'necromancy' for asking the prayers of those alive in Christ who have departed this earthly life.

We've also been treated to classical Nestorianism professed by protestants, and now I see the thread has been joined by protestants in the grip of some Judaizing heresy.

I've personally known protestants who hold a Sabellian doctrine of the Trinity (they're very easy to find in liberal protestant denominations, and fairly easy to find in 'Bible-believing' protestant groups) and protestants with the Arian habit of identifying 'God' with the Father only.

And I guess you've not encountered any of the "No Creed but Jesus" type of protestant who explicitly refuse to accept the Nicene Creed.

You're right on one thing, though, monophysitism is not a common problem among protestants, though I'll bet you can find some who will take the attitude of the Emperor Zeno's Henoticon and refuse to discuss the Natures of Christ (on the basis that no Bible verse uses the word 'Nature' to describe Christ's humanity or divinity, the same way they won't apply the word 'Trinity' to God on a similar basis.)

7,310 posted on 01/23/2007 6:23:47 AM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: Quester
Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants agree on all of the elements of the Apostles and Nicene Creeds.

Not as commonly defined.

7,347 posted on 01/23/2007 11:59:14 AM PST by D-fendr
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