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To: Forest Keeper; Blogger
I think it most likely that Paul spent those three years in solitude in prayer, meditation and study on what Christ had revealed to him

I don't think so, FK. You need to really get acquainted with Saul. You will be surprised what you will find. He and the apostles in Jerusalem did not get along. Without +Barnabas, an early Christian "hot potato," +Paul would have been nowhere.

The Church "put up" with +Paul because he was the only one who could "sell" Christianity to pagan Greeks and Romans. The Christians were chased out of Jerusalem synagogues by 69 AD. The Church was dying in Israel. If +Paul didn't make it "palatable" to the pagans it would have died out.

Those are the real reasons for allowing Christians not to follow the Law, to forsake circumcision, to be released of dietary restrictions, and so on. +Paul made it up. Christ never taught that.

Of course, +Paul was not what the Church wanted, but it was do or die. Afterwords, the Church could not backtrack. Instead, there is a real possibility that some of the later "Paulian" Epistles were written as an afterthought. They differ a great deal from his earlier authenticated works.

The Church had to overlook some of +Paul's own personal interpretations such as his famous and very rarely mentioned verse:

"although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped..." [Phil 5:6]

+Paulian Christianity is distinct from the Christianity described in the Gospels. The Church had to find a way to mend them. It was a matter of survival.

6,296 posted on 01/16/2007 1:34:57 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg; P-Marlowe; xzins

Is this what your church teaches you? Who is your bishop, Thomas Jefferson? Do the scissors come with safety tips or do they trust you not to injure yourself or others as you rip apart God's Word?

I am stunned! How do you believe anything? How are you able to even call yourself a Christian when you have such a low opinion of the writer of 3/4 of the New Testament much less a low opinion of the Lord who called Him?

The more I see you write Kosta, the less likely I think it is you are a Christian. And before you press abuse, I really think it bears examining. This is not a personal attack. How on earth do you believe anything with such a low regard for Scripture?? Surely Orthodoxy doesn't teach you to dismiss the Apostle Paul as a flim flam salesman of Gospel tracts.


6,438 posted on 01/16/2007 8:28:31 PM PST by Blogger
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To: kosta50

As a priest I once knew used to say "Who told you that?"

The removal of the ritual strictures of the Old Covenant Law was not an invention of St. Paul, but a decision of the Apostolic Council recorded in Acts, the model for all of the Holy Ecumenical Councils, whose decisions are always prefaced as was the decision of the Apostolic Council, "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us. . ."

That council was presided over by the First Bishop of Jerusalem, St. James, the Brother of the Lord, very much part of the 'Jewish' Church at Jerusalem.


6,451 posted on 01/16/2007 9:03:09 PM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; Kolokotronis; Alamo-Girl

You don't really believe your post #6296 do you?

It sounds to me, coming to it for the first time, like you've tossed Paul, his epistles, and his ministry, entirely out of the Church.

Please tell me I'm reading you wrong; that you just got carried away in a debate.

If this is orthodoxy, then "how the mighty have fallen."


6,504 posted on 01/17/2007 5:51:46 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg

Are we on the same planet?

The same Galactic Cluster?

Has Stargate SG-1 struck this thread?

Has Alice's rabbit hole sucked us in?

Thankfully, I missed out on that revisionism in my spiritual education.

God had a dozen ways to insure Christianity's success. He happened to have chosen Paul as PART of the picture.

The One capable of raising rocks up as children of Abraham was not limited to Paul's Spirit-Filled efforts . . .

But Paul's Spirit-Filled efforts were wonderously sufficient.

OK,

we now return you to a regularly scheduled rocks-at-St-Paul throwing session . . .


6,514 posted on 01/17/2007 6:30:14 AM PST by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: kosta50; Blogger; Gamecock; Dr. Eckleburg; The_Reader_David; xzins; Quix; P-Marlowe; ...
FK: "I think it most likely that Paul spent those three years in solitude in prayer, meditation and study on what Christ had revealed to him."

I don't think so, FK.

OK, then what do you think he did with those three years (Gal. 1:18), and why?

The Church "put up" with +Paul because he was the only one who could "sell" Christianity to pagan Greeks and Romans.

If true, then this is one time I really don't mind interpreting the word "Church" to mean the Apostolic Church only. :) If Paul was the only one with enough slick to sell to the Gentiles, then what does that say about the other Apostles? They weren't good enough? Paul was a Jew, so he could presumably have ministered to them as well as anyone else. It seems your view would make Paul the most indispensable Apostle. Yet, he appears to be your least favorite.

What would you say to the crazy idea that Paul was specifically CALLED by God to preach to the Gentiles?:

Rom 1:1-3 : Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God— 2 the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures 3 regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, ...

The Church did not "put up" with Paul because of his slick. The Apostles followed their individual callings.

Those are the real reasons for allowing Christians not to follow the Law, to forsake circumcision, to be released of dietary restrictions, and so on. +Paul made it up. Christ never taught that.

As TRD said, those things were decided at a council. Paul didn't simply declare them. If you suppose that Paul made ANYTHING up, then you cannot believe that the Bible was perfectly inspired, and may, therefore, contain error. I'm talking about your personal belief here, not that of the Orthodox Church.

Of course, +Paul was not what the Church wanted, but it was do or die.

This is a truly amazing statement because if the Church really did not want Paul, then by definition, the Church was WRONG and was directly against God. The scriptures are 100% clear that God chose Paul. God wanted Paul. So much for the infallibility of the Church. Further, if the original Church was wrong, then so must the consensus patrum also be subject to error.

The Church had to overlook some of +Paul's own personal interpretations such as his famous and very rarely mentioned verse: "although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped..." [Phil 5:6]

OK, so the Apostolic Church overlooks some scripture. Well, I suppose there's nothing new there. :)

+Paulian Christianity is distinct from the Christianity described in the Gospels. The Church had to find a way to mend them.

In Apostolic theology, there can be no doubt. And boy, did you all get to mending fast! :)

7,421 posted on 01/24/2007 10:07:38 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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