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To: Blogger

My case is quite different, but I won't bother you with it.

The point is again, before I can choose to trust or not to trust, I have to know what it's understanding of scripture is.

Not "all you need is the Word."

That, IMHO, is no answer to the question I've asked.


6,176 posted on 01/15/2007 9:19:21 PM PST by D-fendr
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To: D-fendr
On the Apostles Creed: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/hcc2.v.xiv.iv.html The earlier form [of the apostles creed].... may possibly go back to the third or even the second century. It was probably imported from the East, or grew in Rome, and is substantially identical with the Greek creed of Marcellus of Ancyra (about 340), inserted in his letter to Pope Julius I. to prove his orthodoxy, 956956 In Epiphanius, Haer. LXXII. it is assigned to a.d. 341, by others to 337. It is printed in Schaff (II. 47), Hahn, and in the first table below. It contains, according to Caspari, the original form of the Roman creed as current at the time in the Greek portion of the Roman congregation. It differs from the oldest Latin form only by the omission of πατέρα , and the addition of ζωὴν αἰώνιον 56and with that contained in the Psalter of King Aethelstan..957957 The Psalterium Aethelstani, in the Cotton Library of the British Museum, written in Anglo-Saxon letters, first published by Ussher, then by Heurtley, Caspari, and Hahn (p. 15). It differs from the text of Marcellus by the insertion of πατέρα and the omission of ζωὴν αἰώνιον , in both points agreeing with the Latin text. 57 Greek was the ruling language of the Roman Church and literature down to the third century..958958 On the Greek original of the Roman symbol CaspariÂ’s researches (III. 267-466) are conclusive. Harnack (in Herzog 2, vol. I. 567) agrees: " Der griechische Text ist als das Original zu betrachten; griechisch wurde das Symbol zu Rom eine lange Zeit hindurch ausschliesslich tradirt. Dann trat der lateinisch übersetzte Text als Parallelform hinzu ." Both are disposed to trace the symbol to Johannean circles in Asia Minor on account of the term "only begotten, ( μονογενής ), which is used of Christ only by John. 58 The longer form of the Roman symbol, or the present received text, does not appear before the sixth or seventh century. It has several important clauses which were wanting in the former, as "he descended into hades,"959959 Descendit ad inferna, first found in Arian Creeds ( εἰς ᾅδου or εἰς ᾅδην ) about a.d. 360; then in the Creed of Aquileja, about a.d. 390; then in the Creed of Venantius Fortunatus, 590, in the Sacramentarium Gallicanum, 650, and in the ultimate text of the ApostlesÂ’ Creed in Pirminius, 750. See the table in SchaffÂ’s Creeds, II. 54, and critical note on p. 46. Rufinus says expressly that this clause was not contained in the Roman creed and explains it wrongly as being identical with "buried." Com. c. 18 (in Migne, f. 356): "Sciendum sane est, quod in Ecclesiae Romanae Symbolo non habetur additum, Â’descendit ad inferna:Â’ sed neque in Orientis Ecclesiis habetur hic sermo: via tamen verbi eadem videtur esse in eo, quod Â’sepultis dicitur.Â’" The article of the descent is based upon PeterÂ’s teaching, Acts 2: 31 ("he was not left in Hades," εἰς ἅδου, consequently he was there); 1 Pet. 3:19; 4:6; and the promise of Christ to the, dying robber, Luke 23:34 (" to day thou shalt be with Me in paradise," ἐν τῷ παραδείσῳ ), and undoubtedly means a self exhibition of Christ to the spirits of the departed. The translation " descended into hell" is unfortunate and misleading. We do not know whether Christ was in hell; but we do know from his own lips that he was in paradise between his death and resurrection. The term Hades is much more comprehensive than Hell (Gehenna), which is confined to the state and place of the lost. 59 the predicate "catholic" after ecclesiam,960960 It is found first in the Sacramentarium Gallicanum, 650. The older creeds of Cyprian , Rufinus, Augustin , read simply sanctam ecclesiam, Marcellus ἀγίαν ἐκκλησίαν 60 "the communion of saints,"961961 Sanctorum communionem. After 650. 61 and "the life everlasting."962962 Contained in Marcellus and Augustin , but wanting in Rufinus and in the Psalter of Aethelstan. See on all these additions and their probable date the tables in my Creeds of Christendom, II. 54 and 55. 62 These additions were gathered from the provincial versions (Gallican and North African) and incorporated into the older form.
6,179 posted on 01/15/2007 9:23:14 PM PST by Blogger
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