Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Blogger
In reality, all three members of the trinity raised Christ from the dead

Yeah, well, 1 Thess 1:10 and Rom 8:11 actually speak of "he" who sent the Son and the Spirit, i.e. "God." +Paul is decidedly speaking of God as someone other than Christ.

That goes for John as well, as you quote, "After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken."

But it also tells us that God did not "give" them faith; He showed them a miracle and only then they believed! +John tells us that the Apostles really did not believe Christ" until he "was" resurrected! +Thomas is a living proof of that.

One more thing, in Matthew 17, +John and +Peter see a transfigured Christ on Mt. Tabor; they now know that He is divine. Yet +Peter betrays Him not once but thrice! Don't you find that strange? I do.

And I thought that the OT righteous were bond slaves of death and were in the Hades until Christ came to rescue them after the crucifixion. Yet both of them appear on Mt. Tabor! Don't you find that strange? I do.

5,946 posted on 01/14/2007 10:43:15 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5936 | View Replies ]


To: kosta50

These passages are not problems for those who embrace the Bible as God's message to man.

It is clear who Paul is referring to in this passage- and he is NOT denying the deity of Christ in so doing.

John's noting what the disciples saw doesn't negate sola fide either. The disciples had faith that Christ was who He said he was and who Scripture testified He was. They were eyewitnesses, for sure. They were blessed. But it doesn't mean that they didn't have true faith. Remember, they had just buried their friend. You can hardly fault them for losing focus on who Christ was - particularly since they didn't seem to realize all of the full import of what He said until after it was all over. Yet, they did believe. Not just that he was alive. They could see that. But that He was the Christ, the Son of the Living God. God in the flesh. Their Savior.

Kosta,you know that God is everpresent and watching everything you do. Do you ever betray him? Ever sin against him? Well, you know who He is. You know He's watching. Don't you find it strange that you sin against Him knowing you are in full view of Him? I don't. Peter had a "human" moment. If Scripture were a man-made man-inspired set of documents, Peter probably would have had a cape and rescued Jesus from the Cross. Instead, we see him as quite fallible and quite forgetful. I mean good grief - he fed 5000 and the next scene they are fearing for their lives in his midst. People forget very quickly. Peter was no exception.


As to the bond-slaves of death comment that is an interpretation. The Old Testament Saints were saved the same way we are - by faith. They had a different spot in history. They looked forward to the promised Messiah, and we look back at him. Still, it is said that Abraham's faith was counted for righteousness (and yes, James says his works justified him - but again, with a protestant understanding of James this is no problem).


5,951 posted on 01/14/2007 10:55:39 PM PST by Blogger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5946 | View Replies ]

To: kosta50

Oh, that last part - if one is saved one is not bound. The OT Saints were living at Paradise or Abraham's bosom. The Bible is not explicit about what that was. Yet it was evidentally not a place of torment at all and was a place where it was at least possible for human beings who had died to return from that "dimension" or place (as we see with Moses, Elijah, and Samuel - though Elijah never died. He was translated).


5,956 posted on 01/14/2007 11:05:21 PM PST by Blogger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5946 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson