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To: Blogger

Doctrine does not contradict scripture. You may not like how they've interpreted the Scriptures but there is no contradiction.

I don't see these holy men of God as being "puffed up". I see them as they are, humble servants.

Going back to Scripture to determine scripture seems a bit circular to me. Here is my simple view of how this works. Jesus set up the Church on the Rock of Peter. Peter and the apostles went out to spread God's word. As they went along, they ran into contradictions and confusion. In order to settle those problems that arose, they were settled among themselves and written down. This knowledge was passed on to their replacements or those they put in charge in new areas. Doctrine was formed as needed. The main tenets/beliefs of the church have not changed. Why would I not go to the those that have had first hand knowledge passed on to them.

The reason you don't come up with different opinions is because then you'd have to go out and start your own church. Isn't that how it works? Why on earth would I want to be like the Protestants that have divided so many times in the last 4-500 years that they are barely recognizable from those that originally split?

I don't have to double and triple check an issue. It's already been settled. Why fix what is not broken? Again, I'm reading Scripture on my own at home. So because what I have decided goes along with the Catholic Church I'm somehow not doing it right? I'm not taking what the Church says blindly!! That's what keeps making me so angry at your posts!

Luke 10:16
16 He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me.

We are all human. That is why God gave us His Church on Earth that the gates of hell would not prevail against. That is why he breathed on his Apostles and why they have passed on their knowledge and on and on it continues to this day. Yes, there have been bad seed within that process but that has not taken the Church down. The Church is the final Authority.

Matthew 18:15-18
15 But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. 16 And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. 18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.

God didn't set it up this way so that we couldn't be individual thinkers. He did this to protect us heresy and disunity.


5,914 posted on 01/14/2007 12:59:39 PM PST by samiam1972 (Live simply so that others may simply live!)
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To: samiam1972
To: Blogger Doctrine does not contradict scripture. You may not like how they've interpreted the Scriptures but there is no contradiction.
I am afraid you are wrong there. You just don't see it because you don't wish to. The Bible forbids contacting dead people. The church proclaims we should pray to saints who have died. (It is a false distinction to say that the dead people in the Old Testament were any different than those in the New for the soul never dies. It either goes to Heaven (or in the Old Testament Paradise), or Hell. We aren't supposed to contact them. The Bible gives no examples of people contacting them in the NT (and the Old Testament example was cursed). It is a contradiction. Christ paid the full price for our sins. So why do penance? Christ's payment wasn't apparently good enough for the church. The Bible says that all but Jesus sinned. Yet, the church proclaims Mary a non-sinner. Such is NOT Scriptural and not even all church fathers agreed upon that but it became dogma so we aren't allowed to even question it. Now she has been given the titles which belong to God alone Mediator and Advocate. Plus she has been made a Co-Redeemer. The RCC pushes people into worship of Mary - but RCs do not want to see that so they call it "Veneration." There are MANY more examples, I am sad to say. But you, being a good Catholic, will not see it so I'll let it sit at this.

I don't see these holy men of God as being "puffed up". I see them as they are, humble servants.
How much do you know of your church's history. Many if not most were in positions of high authority in the Middle ages when these things were being hammered out because it was a power position. They were the second sons of European aristocracy and that is what second sons did. There were a number of unfortunate Popes that were elected to the holy see by this same church. Some having mistress. Some having illegitimate children. And at least one having been said to have had an orgy in the vatican. That same church you trust to tell you right from wrong has produced scandal after scandal in this century with very little done to the perps.

Going back to Scripture to determine scripture seems a bit circular to me.
Of course it is. But so is your reasoning. You go back to the church because the church says that that is where the final decision making resides. It tells you that Christ set it up as the be-all and end all of discourse on matters and you believe it, because the church says so.

Here is my simple view of how this works. Jesus set up the Church on the Rock of Peter. Peter and the apostles went out to spread God's word. As they went along, they ran into contradictions and confusion. In order to settle those problems that arose, they were settled among themselves and written down. This knowledge was passed on to their replacements or those they put in charge in new areas. Doctrine was formed as needed. The main tenets/beliefs of the church have not changed. Why would I not go to the those that have had first hand knowledge passed on to them.
Unfortunately, a lot of doctrines got added and the effect was that the main tenets did change. Paul wanted to know one thing, Christ and Him crucified. Now, there is much more that has been added to that. Unfortunately, I don't have time to finish my answer, but I'll get to it later tonight if you are interested in a response to the rest.
5,921 posted on 01/14/2007 2:27:01 PM PST by Blogger
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